A torrent of invalid arguments

Well, I had this little gem in my inbox this morning, which, apart from the regular tactic of citing child abuse as a reason to keep consenting adult incest illegal, also speaks about inbreeding and power differentials… okay folks, let’s get stuck in:

There are people who believe that incest isn’t all that bad, especially when it’s between two consenting adults who aren’t having children

Well, why would that be bad? Explanation please.

Some people are able to justify their actions with the thinking that no one is hurt by incest if we control procreation.

Maybe that’s because nobody is hurt. I dunno… just a thought. Furthermore, procreation between relatives wouldn’t be a problem if it was better understood and these couples were able to get genetic counseling before deciding to have a child.

“The law has something to say about that,” says listverse.com, 

Just because the law says something does not make it right. Was the law right about gay people in the 1950s? No.

which cited the 2010 case of Columbia University professor David Epstein and his 24-year-old daughter.

At 24 she is more than old enough to decide who she wants to have a sexual relationship with, be that her father or any other bloke.

In 2010, 46-year-old Prof Esptein “was charged with one count of third-degree incest after being accused of having consensual sex with his daughter.

Which is ridiculous, they were consenting adults! What a waste of public resources and a heartless breaking up of a happy couple.

The daughter faced no charges because, in the eyes of the law, children are considered a ‘protected class,’ even when they’re above the age of consent.

Which is stupid, this man shouldn’t have been prosecuted and at 24 years old she does not need nanny state to ‘protect’ her… from what exactly? From having a consensual relationship with her father? Doesn’t compute does it. It’s her choice to decide who to have sex with.

“The theory is that the power dynamic between a parent and a child makes consent impossible to negotiate.

If the child is actually a CHILD then yes that is true… but if we’re talking about ADULT offspring that’s completely different. Some perfectly legal relationships exist that have far greater power differentials than parent/adult offspring, for instance boss/employee. An adult has the right to consent to sex with anyone he or she wants to. To say otherwise is to infantilise people and to claim that the age of consent is not valid.

Even when incest occurs between siblings, the elder of the two is usually held to a higher degree of accountability (listverse.com /2014/05/22/10-incendiary-facts-about-incest).

Again, that’s ridiculous.

I have not as yet encountered anyone who thinks incest is a good thing or, at least, that it’s not a bad thing.

Then you obviously haven’t done any research on incest communities on the Internet.

Or, if I have met one of them (and I may have unknowingly—that’s the insidiousness of the crime) they have not as yet confronted me with that idea.

Everyone likely knows at least one person who was involved. People have to hide their relationships because of bigotry like this. Why would anyone come out to such a hateful and misinformed person?

I am instead, encouraged by those who took time out to write me on the subject. The number of responders are lower, not surprisingly, because I assume most people wish we could get over this subject area quickly. But when the clergy/pastors contribute, I’m heartened.

Obviously this person has been dealing with people who were victims of sexual abuse, that IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than sex between CONSENTING ADULTS who are closely related. Also… clergy? Same clergy that perpetrated and covered up the sexual abuse of children by any chance? The church and state has no place in dictating the sex lives of adults.

The truth is there is no “getting over” incest or getting past talking about it. Not when every day adults violate the trust of their charges, while other adults and siblings stand by with complicity.

This applies to sexual abuse of minors, NOT CONSENTING ADULTS.

Not when our social structure is falling apart and our most visible intervention would be helicopters hovering as a “measure” to bring calm to offending East secondary students, while the education ministry flounders on suitable mediation.

Rioting students are a bit off topic, but the social structure is falling apart? Oh no, can’t let those incest people have equality, it’s going to bring destruction to us all! [/sarcasm]

If we were to get the information, we may well find amid the reasons that our children are acting out is incestuous trauma and early life and/or continuing molestation, among our boys and girls.

So let me see if I understand this correctly, the leading cause of children misbehaving is that they’re all being sexually abused at home, and that it causes kids to ‘play doctor’….. WHAT? Does it cross her mind that these innocent little children are just exploring gender differences and that it is completely innocent? Does it not occur to her that other factors influence a childs behavior? What if, for instance, there is an alcoholic or drug abusing parent who is a waste of space but DOESN’T sexually abuse the kids? How would that affect childrens bahavior?

But I get a feeling we’re afraid to find the causes and meet our charges with crucial interventions before relegating them and their stumbling parents, who themselves have never had an intervention, to Monsters Inc.

She never suggests what those interventions should be, but really… child abuse is and always should be a criminal offence. This has nothing to do with sex between consenting adult relatives.

“Sexual abuse, especially incest, is a cringe-worthy subject in T&T… and is a violation of which little is said even though we know and suspect that people within a child’s home/family account for more cases of childhood sexual trauma

Again, sexual abuse is a violation, incest between consenting adults is not… PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP CONFUSING THE TWO!

When I wrote that sentence recently, commenting on young women who bore their father’s child, I was thinking of situations where the offending parent, (stepparent, uncle, grandfather, sibling) denies the crime and a child is borne. 

What happens to the baby’s identity? How does such a child function if the evidence of their beginnings is placed before them? What does a child do when his/her father is also his/her grandfather? 

Perhaps if we lose the bigotry and stop stigmatizing consenting adults, then explaining it to the child would be no problem! The stigma comes from society, not from the fact that the child is the product of incest. This really shouldn’t even be an issue.

Some families are known to have used abortion as a mechanism to treat with the visibility of the dirty little secret in their homes that a pregnancy brings. But what about the additional psychological trauma your daughter or son is made to bear mummy? Daddy?

If it’s consenting adults, there isn’t any trauma in the relationship… the ONLY trauma involved in consensual adult incest is having to hide these relationships and being told that we’re dirty, perverted and sick. If you care about the mental health of people, stop persecuting them!

Yet, these scenarios deal only with the compounded issue of bearing a child from an incestuous relationship. For the most part, psychiatrist treat those who suffered the violation without the “visible” evidence. 

The brute-beast ugliness of these scenarios may account for why incest is still lowered to the “hushed, shadowy outskirts of public and personal discussion” in a world that is able to be accepting and openly advocate for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and queer among us; a world where very few issues remain “too controversial or taboo to discuss.” 

Then let’s have a proper discussion and BRING US TO THE TABLE! We want to be out in the open proud of our identity and contribution to culture. Not talking about things has lead us to where we are now, a very misunderstood minority! The LGBT movement has lead to their people being accepted for who and what they are… and that happened because they became UNDERSTOOD. Well then, same applies to incestuous people… let us too be heard, understood and accepted for who and what we are.

It must be the curdling that comes with the idea that a child is being raped by his/her own parent/relative, that his/her own flesh and blood is destroying their psyche, bluntly piercing their innocence with irreparable cruelty, that shames us into silence, a silence which continues to condemn us and disrupt the “happy” lie with varied exhibitions of violence and crime that we cannot explain or contain.

In case you missed it the zillionth time: RAPE AND SEXUAL ABUSE OF MINORS IS HORRIBLE, CRIMINAL AND SHOULD BE PUNISHED. CONSENSUAL ADULT INCEST SHOULDN’T BE A CRIME BECAUSE THERE IS NO VICTIM.

Ken Eisold, PhD, in his article, What’s wrong with incest, says, “Children need to be protected from sexual exploitation by parents (adults, siblings), because it is all too easy for them to be abused. And we know all too well the life-long damaging effects on children who are exploited by those on whom they are dependent. Their capacity to trust others is impaired if not destroyed,”

Yes, sexual abuse harms… we understand that, we AGREE with that. Again, what does that have to do with consensual adult incest?

“So we need laws and customs and taboos, whatever it takes, to preserve the trust that children need to have in their caregivers. That trust is not only the basis for their future relationships with others. It’s the basis for the confidence they need to be responsible adults and citizens,” says Eisold.

No, you need laws and customs and taboos against PEDOPHILIA… not against incest between consenting adults.

Honestly I am annoyed right now, I really wish these people would learn that pedophilia and child molesting are not the same as incest between consenting adults. For the love of God, is that really so hard for these sad people to grasp?