Nothing off Limits, my second interview

Well folks, as promised, I did it again, I went back to do a second episode with Michelle to cover the results of the consanguinamory study. We discuss that and a few more things also.

I’ve built up a wonderful rapport with Michelle, and I can tell you that this appearance will not be my last on her show (unless I’m unlucky enough to get hit by a bus or something). She is a true ally and is genuinely fascinated by all that she has learned about us over the last few months. This is a quality that is uncommon in people, and it is wonderful for us to have found such an open minded and intellectually honest independant journalist willing to cover our stories. Just look at what she has to say about haters on her blog, and you’ll see what I mean.

She is a real gem, and my thanks go out to her once more for giving me this platform to speak for us. If you’re reading Michelle, may God bless you because we certainly do 🙂

A new blog, and a word of thanks

Some good news today guys 🙂 KS member LoveIsLove has created a wonderful new website called Consanguinamorous Rainbow with the aim to giving advice and information about consanguinamory. He has also been rather busy over the last couple of weeks working on the Consanguinamory Wiki I created a while back, but didn’t do much with. So I am asking all members of the community to bookmark these pages and check back regularly for updates, and also to say thank you to LoveIsLove for his recent contributions to our resources. Welcome to the team, friend,  and well done 🙂

Please read URGET

No, really, that’s not a spelling error. It’s actually the title of a particilarly moronic piece of hate mail sent to Cristina last night while I was chatting with her on Facebook, which, with her permission, I have decided to cover.

I will have to cut off at some points for commentary, as within this block paragraph of doom there are no commas, full stops, or punctuation of any kind. It’s a huge run-on sentence, or should I say, rant. We all know ten year olds who can write better than this, but to hell with the terrible writing, let’s get on with the content:

You people are f****** disgusting lilysgardenercom it’s f****** wrong

She opens by expressing her disgust, uses an expletive, and then asterisks it out… which begs the question, why include swear words if you don’t have the bollocks to keep them in? This is repeated throughout the whole letter, but lets continue:

and you guys probably will go to hell for incest I’m just letting you know you can’t do that it says in the Bible so so you’re going to hell

So, it’s wrong because the Bible says so. How convincing an argument. The Bible also forbids pork and clothes made of mixed fabrics. Remember guys, you’re going to Hell if you’re wearing a cotton/polyester shirt, or if you enjoyed a nice piece of bacon every now and then. When analyzing what the Bible says, it usually pays to apply a hefty dose of common sense, especially when dealing with the ancient laws written down in Leviticus.

I wonder if she would be inclined to throw Abraham and Sarah into jail, or believes them to be burning in Hell for all eternity?… just saying. This chick doesn’t know as much about the Bible as she thinks she does. It’s not as cut and dry as she believes it to be, and if she had actually READ some of it, she would realize that.

and honestly when you have a child probably with the f****** whatever Brothers your maybe your sister maybe you’re lesbian is sick

Was that a homophobic slur? I think it was. She seems to think that Cristina is going to have a baby with her brother… or with her sister if she’s a lesbian, which according to her is sick. Um. Don’t know how to break it to her, but two women cannot procreate through having sex. As for the sentence structure here, if indeed it was intended as a complete sentence (again, it’s hard to tell because of lack of grammar) it’s pretty incoherent, and difficult to tell what specifically she intended to say.

oh you’re raping your family member and you’re going to have some f****** in breeded children so spread some in breeds around this f****** world

Rape, who the hell mentioned rape? Nobody on any site in this netword advocates for raping anyone, including family members. We ACTUALLY advocate for consenting adults who are in consanguinamorous relationships to be allowed to live their lives without being harassed or persecuted by the state, or anyone else for that matter.

If I’m reading this tirade correctly, she believes that if family members rape each other, it leads to spreading inbreeding around? What? That makes no sense at all.

and I swear to god dude you will go to hell I’m not trying to hurt your feelings but I’m trying to warn you about hell because honestly you’re going to go to help for f****** brother

Trying to warn us about hell… maybe that’s what she thinks she is doing, but in reality she is making herself look like a complete idiot. I’m sure God has better things to worry about that who is doing what with their genitals.

Also, she cannot be legitimately claiming to NOT wanting to hurt our feelings when hitting the ‘send’ button on a huge incestophobic rant with rape advocacy accusations and ‘spreading inbreeding around’. We’re not thick enough to fall for that one.

oh and encouraging all these people in the world to f*** their family members is another reason why u are going to hell

No, actually nobody encourages people to engage in incestuous activity, we simply provide support and information to people already involved, and try to raise awareness of our community. Clearly she hasn’t read a word of Cristinas site.

and not disease you made up is a f****** lie and it’s disgusting sexual attraction to your family

First off, Genetic Sexual Attraction is a genuine phenomenon. Had she bothered to google it, she would have realized that GSA is a thing, it’s not some made up ‘disease’. We don’t classify consanguinamory as a disease anyway thank you very much, it’s an orientation, asswipe.

I understand if you say yeah my family members are beautiful or something but oh I want to f*** my brother your f****** weird and yeah you’re deranged and sick

Translation: I have a strong Westermarck effect and find incest disgusting, anyone who disagrees with me is weird, sick and deranged.

Not much more to say about this except closed minded and bigoted.

and by the way I’m up playing with you if you don’t stop posting s*** about f****** family members

Playing with us? So this whole rant is a joke then? Maybe we should take it as such because nothing we’ve reviewed so far has lead us to take her seriously. Actually, me and Cristina had a bloody good laugh about it last night.

I am going to take you off this internet and throw you in jail lady for encouraging incest

Actually, she can’t do that. Freedom of speech includes expressing unpopular opinions, and again, nobody is encouraging incest, we simply provide a supportive environment for people who are or who have been involved. There is nothing illegal about anything on these websites.

and thinking you guys have the right to talk about family members and the wrong ways if you knew who my father was Lady you would never have made this website

How the hell would we know who her father is? Why should we care? If he was anyone of consequence or intelligence, he would have explained the free speech laws to her. Chances are, he works stacking shelves or flipping burgers. So, if this was an attempt to put the frighteners on us; epic fail.

my father knows about this now and he is really going to f*** your s*** up

As Cristina said in her reply e-mail: Good luck with that.

and we aren’t even from here so I mind you you might want to pack your belongings that all the incest know they need to cross the border to Mexico and go f*** themselves over there and get out of God damn America because we’re not trying to have America get f***** up by you sick m************

‘all the incest know’? Maybe ‘all the incoherence know of the writing not good’. Sorry guys, I just had to, you know. She isn’t even from America, but she wants Cristina out of America? That just doesn’t make any sense. Trying to make sense of this is causing my IQ points to be reduced by about 10.

I’m not playing with you my father is going to f****** take your website down and we’re going to blast you and sending this in on the news and you’re going to be f****** embarrassed 

She does realize that Cristina has spoken with many a journalist… right? That talking to the media (providing that it’s anonymous) doesn’t phase us, right? Well, she can try to embarrass us, but we are not embarassed by our sexuality, and nor should we be.

So here ends the rant of doom. Really, we had a good hard laugh at this one. The lame threats, the butchery of the English language, the spelling mistake in the title… none of it leads us to take this seriously. She got angry, real angry, but in the end her anger and her ranting produced the opposite of the desired effect. It does not scare us, it made us laugh.

My grade: D- Try harder next time.

Genetic Engineering and Consanguinamory

Well folks, another day, another great topic up for discussion at Kindred Spirits. This time it’s genetic engineering and it’s relevance to us as a community. After responding to the thread, I thought it deserved an article of it’s own because I hadn’t covered it yet and it’s something that could potentially be of great importance to us at some point in the future.

As we all know too well, one of the most commonly cited objections to the legalization of incest is the ‘mutant babies’ argument, namely that incest leads to disabilities and deformities in the resulting children. While most often this is not the case, and most babies born to consang parents are healthy, we must accept and acknowledge that we do bear greater risks than our regular counterparts. Therefore the choice to bear a child must be taken very carefully, ideally after genetic testing to ensure that we are fully aware of any genetic nasties which may be lurking unseen, and the risks of these abnormalities being expressed should a baby be conceived.

Like all parents, consang couples want their offspring to be as healthy as they can be, and this is where the subject of genetic engineering comes in. Now, I know that the thought of genetic engineering fills peoples heads with horrendous experiments gone wrong. It helps none that labs are creating corn crops which contain their own pesticide which kills bees, other vital insect life and field mice whilst contaminating the land, they’ve made bioluminescent pigs and cats, and even goats which produce spider silk, and probably MUCH more than that. Such things are true abominations, animal abuse, contamination of the food chain, and they make me question the sanity of those conducting these awful experiments.

However, with regards to our community, these things are far removed from the potential benefits which genetic engineering can have when the technology and science is used responsibly. Here, I am speaking of the type of genetic engineering which replaces a faulty gene with a healthy copy (one which already exists within the gene pool of the organism thus not introducing anything foreign) with the view to preventing serious and debilitating conditions which limit the quantity and quality of life. Used this way, genetic engineering should not create such a degree of moral or ethical quandry, and nor should it have significant impact on the evolution of our species.

Say we have a hypothetical brother and sister couple, they’re both young and healthy, but a genetic test reveals that they both carry arecessive ‘bad copy’ of a gene which could lead to a debilitating condition, but have a good dominant copy and so neither sibling is expressing the disease. If they chose to have a baby, there is a 25% chance that the child will express homozygous recessive ‘bad copy’ genes (meaning the child has the genetic disease), a 25% chance of homozygous healthy copy genes (the child doesn’t carry ANY copy of the bad genes), and a 50% chance of the child having heterozygous bad and healthy genes like the parents (recessive bad copy, but dominant healthy copy). So, all in all, a 75% chance that the baby will be okay, and a 25% chance that it will express the disease. Yes, I know this is a very simplistic example because many diseases are caused by more than one gene, but it’s sufficient that you get the general idea.

At this point, the couple have a choice, they could forego having children of their own and adopt one instead, she could use a sperm bank (which would make the pregnancy the same risk as for regulars), they could take their chances and hope that they get a favourable outcome, or they could ensure that their child will be healthy by using genetic engineering. If they go for this procedure, it would mean that an egg would be taken from her ovary, and he would need to provide a sperm sample. They would then choose a sperm with the ‘healthy copy’ gene to fertilize the egg, which would then be implanted into her uterus at the correct time in her monthly cycle. This would be the max that would need to be done to ensure that the baby is healthy without actually tampering with the gene pool. The child would be 100% genetically theirs, but without playing the genetic lottery. In essence, it would be a glorified test tube baby.

Morally, I see no problem in such a scenario. We’re not contaminating the gene pool with foreign genetic codes from other species, we’re not talking about designer babies and all the ethical considerations that brings, not least it’s potential impact on our evolution. We’re simply talking about disease prevention, and removing the ‘mutant babies’ argument from the table of our critics. The technology exists, and it can be used in this restricted and responsible way to prevent unnecessary suffering. It is not only our people that could benefit from it’s use, but also regulars who carry bad genes which can effect the health of their children. Remember, regular pregnancies aren’t risk free either. What about people with Huntingtons disease and stuff like that? Wouldn’t the lives of their kids be better off if they can guarantee that they’re are not going to suffer a serious degenerative condition? Of course.

It may not be such an issue right now because people object to genetic engineering for a wide range of reasons, including religious objections. However, at some point in the future, this technology will be roled out for wider medical use, and when it is, it should be used responsibly and it can be of great benefit to anyone who has concerns about the genetic health of their children. For us, it will knock ‘mutant babies’ straight off the table, further weakening the argument of our opponents. If used responsibly, this technology has the potential to do a lot of good in the world, for a lot of people. It is not a thing to be feared, it’s called progress, but like with many things, the more we know, the greater our responsibility to use such technology wisely.

Factors contributing to extreme incestophobia

I was having a conversation yesterday with Rainy, one of my close friends and colleagues, and fellow admin over at Kindred Spirits. The conversation went from current events to some peoples extreme reaction towards us. We weren’t talking about people who simply disagree with our lifestyle and who simply want incest to remain illegal (the vast majority), we were talking about people who literally want us dead (a minority within that majority).

As unpleasant as it the fact is, these people exist. But without understanding what drives such an extreme reaction, we have no hope of defeating it’s toxic effects on society and neutralizing it at source. Ideally it would be better if nobody was developing such extreme views, and this article exists to explore some options on how we may do just that.

After some theorizing, it became clear to me that there is no one single factor that is causing people to react in this way, rather it may be a convergence of several of these factors. So, let’s explore what those factors are:

An extremely strong Westermarck Effect

I believe that the Westermarck Effect exists as a kind of scale, between somebody having none at all, and people having it ramped all the way up to maximum where they feel physically nauseated at the possibility of even other people doing it. Most people are somewhere in between, where it’s strong enough that they wouldn’t engage in incestuous activity themselves and they’d prefer others didn’t but even if they do they just don’t want to hear about it because it makes them uncomfortable.

Having the Westermarck effect as a scale makes more sense to me than it being a simple ‘on’ and ‘off’ function, which in my mind would be a gross oversimplification of whats going on. So, I think that somebody having an extremely strong Westermarck Effect, while in isolation may not be enough to make somebody homicidal, may be a risk factor in predisposing them to such attitudes.

Childhood sexual abuse by a relative

While most of the population falsely associate incest with child abuse, I believe that many people can see the glaring difference between people molesting their kids and two adult relatives forming a relationship, although even then many believe that there is some kind of grooming going on, something I covered extensively in a previous essay.

That said, I think that incest and child abuse may become indistinguishable for some people who suffered psychological trauma as a result of being sexually abused by a family member. Nothing gets people more angry than being who abuse defenceless little kiddies, and for good reason, pedophiles cause horrific trauma to their victims and mentally scar them for life in many cases. Some victims are left with trust issues, and an inability to be physically intimate with others. Of course anyone who has suffered from this should seek help and counselling, and they’re deserving of sympathy.

I can fully understand why somebody who has suffered like this and then hears about an incest couple could fly into a homicidal rage because they associate it, falsely, with the abuse that they went through. Not all victims of sexual abuse are going to feel that way, and some may even oppose legislation against consenting adults in their name… but I can and do understand why some people would become so angry.


While this should be an irrelevance to the law, it certainly isn’t an irrelevance in many peoples lives. Religion does shape how people think and feel, and the more religious a person is, the more likely they are to hold extreme views about sexuality. Belonging to a conservative sect of a religion is more likely to make a person hold extreme positions about alternative sexuality than somebody from a more libertarian or liberal sect. A good indicator is the attitude that a religion holds towards homosexuality, it’s a pretty safe bet that those preaching hellfire and damnation to gay people are likely even more hostile to incest.

In some religions there is room for interpretation. At first glance, the Bible appears to be against incest, and yet Abraham and his sister Sarah were clearly a consang couple and God not only approved their union, but blessed them with a child after Sarah has believed herself to be barren.

In other religions there is far less room for interpretation. Islamic Sharia law for instance insists that gay people be thrown from high places, and that people guilty of incest be stoned to death after being flogged.

So while religion may be an irrelevance to many people, it isn’t irrelevant when talking about peoples attitudes towards sexuality in general or about us in particular. Some people, those of the ‘true believer’ mentality, are more prone to getting whipped up into a homicidal frenzy than those who may simply celebrate their holidays and that’s about it.


While it’s certainly true that most psychopaths are able to go about their business without murdering anyone (they realize it’s in their own best interests to adhere to the law) it can be a factor in some people getting homicidal when they see or hear about something that they REALLY don’t like. I say this because most people are able to have empathy for others, this acts as a social and moral barrier for us and prevents us from harming others. With a psychopath, this barrier is severely impaired, because he or she would have no capacity for remorse upon hurting others. It’s not difficult to see how psychopathy would be a risk factor.

Degree of mental programming

Everyone is programmed to an extent, but some more than others. Programming happens when something is planted in the subconscious mind, perhaps without that person ever being aware of it. Most people have undergone anti-incest programming in the form of ‘eww gross’ reactions of other people when the subject has been mentioned, stories in the news about incest couples being depraved and perverted, and of course we’re the butt of many a joke. All of this underscored by the Westermarck Effect I mentioned earlier and you’ve got the recipe for a pretty solid negative response to incest.

That said, like in all other things, it is a scale. Some have been programmed more than others. If they’ve ever seen somebody else fly into a homicidal rage when they heard about incest, they will be more likely to think that this is the appropriate course of action. Not consciously of course, but subconsciously. So they can fly into a fit of rage without ever knowing why or even stopping to question their reaction.

What can be done to reduce these risks to our safety?

In the short term remaining hidden is a no-brainer, but in the long term that is not a viable option if we want full equality, and things aren’t going to change any if we stay hidden and afraid. Needless to say we need to minimize if possible the risk factors.

Now, it seems at a glance that all of these things are beyond our control, and to a certain degree they are. That said, that doesn’t mean that we cannot work to lessen the impact that these have. As I have said previously, we’re not as powerless as we sometimes believe ourselves to be. Far from it, we can have some influence in the world if we use our heads.

Our main objective is to improve our image. We have a major PR problem, and most of it is down to ignorance of the issues, and peoples incorrect perceptions about us. We can and should continue to get our stories out there as much as possible without putting ourselves at risk. For now that means running with independants as much as humanly possible, as they will not always expect us to provide verification, as the mainstream media does. Even if an independant does ask for verification at first, quite often it’s possible to negotiate and they may publish your story anyway even with no verification.

It’s an education issue mostly. Most people are hoplessly ill informed about consensual incest, because it doesn’t effect them and they rely on ‘common knowledge’. When that common knowledge is lacking, it leads to all kinds of misconceptions, and sometimes to people being demonized, as we are. Some of this is down to fear, aleviate the ignorance and we aleviate the fear.

By doing this we can actually get to a point where somebody who has an extremely high Westermarck effect can be disgusted without feeling the need to fly into a rage. We can get to the point where the sexual abuse victim no longer associates his or her abuse with consenting adults who are just a bit different from the norm. We can appeal to more moderate and inclusive versions of each religion so that eventually their attitudes towards us become the dominant ones. We can’t do anything about the fact that some people have psychopathy, but we can at least make it socially unacceptable to kill us and make it in their best interests not to harm us. Lastly, by fighting the misconceptions and ignorance, we leave less and less room for the programming of peoples minds.

You see, this is not an unwinnable war, it’s just going to be a long one. This is deeply engrained into the public psyche, and this level of prejudice is not going to be quick or easy to remove, but if we keep putting one foot in front of the other, we will get there in the end, no matter how long the journey. But no matter how long that journey is, no matter what obstacles we face, as long as we have each other, and enough faith to keep going, we WILL get there. That I promise you.

When a normally good media policy isn’t good for us

As we all know, the media are responsible for reporting the news. This means that they have a responsibility to the public to ensure that the news that they are reporting is accurate to the best of their knowledge. Usually this means that they need to verify the stories that they report to be sure of the accuracy and authenticity of the content.

Usually this is a very good thing, it ensures that public opinion is not unduly swayed on serious issues because of something that isn’t actually true. Say for instance, the issue was whether or not to go to war with a country, a journalist had damned best make sure that the info he has at his disposal is accurate before dispensing it into an article which is then potentially acted upon by the government.

So yes, when it is a matter of life and death, this policy is extremely important and I do not blame media bosses entirely for employing it across the board. That said, there should be some exceptions, exceptions which would allow the reporting of stories which should be heard, but cannot be because of extreme risk both to the people who would need to provide verification, and to the journalists who would run those stories.

Let me back up here just a little to explain further. About a week ago, our friend Cristina contacted me to explain that a journalist from The Sun had interviewed her, and was interested in interviewing me. Naturally, I jumped at the chance to get my story out there for others, and I friended her on Facebook. My impressions were that of a nice lady who wanted to discover the truth about us and report it as such, so she asked me her questions about my relationship with my dad amongst other thing. I completed the interview with her, and then she asked me if she could verify my story….. oh dear. Needless to say, because what I did is currently against the law, and also because I’ve too much to lose, and that the movement cannot afford to lose a central player like myself, I could for the most obvious reasons supply this information to her.

In essence, expecting incestuous people to supply verification is actually expecting a criminal to supply proof of his or her crime, even though it shouldn’t even be a crime! Sorry, but it isn’t going to happen. Info like this can be easily subpoenaed by the courts. I do not blame this journalist, actually I quite like her, she seems very nice and she just wanted to present the information she discovered in a fair and neutral way. She spoke with her editor about it and it is he who said no, without verification the story cannot go ahead.

This is NOT an isolated incident by any means. My experience with The Sun is the same as with VICE journalists who have from time to time approached me (except with those, we didn’t even get as far as an interview). It is a general policy endemic to the media industry, which as I say, is usually important in ensuring that what is being reported is in fact correct.

What I would like to say to the media bosses is this: Would YOU, in our shoes, give away your indentity, location or other personal info? I doubt it. Can you understand WHY we have to be as secretive as we are? Our stories are there for you, we’ll tell you about it, just please, don’t expect us to provide proof of our ‘crime’, we won’t do it for security reasons. We’re a secretive people for good reason, we risk prison time for coming out. In the public sphere we cannot just be what we are, that’s the problem. You media bosses could consider being allies to us, allowing our stories to go forth without verification. We don’t even mind if you TELL the public that our stories are unverifed, explaining why they cannot be. That way, the reader gets to make up their own mind on whether or not the stories are true. In this way, you’re not decieving your readers, you’re giving our stories the public viewing they deserve, and boosting your own ratings. I’d say that would be a win-win scenario for everybody involved.

Don’t get me wrong, I realise that for all the media know, I could be some super sad loser guy stuck in his mothers basement living on cheetohs, mashed potato and beer. However, EVEN IF THAT WERE TRUE, which it isn’t, would that invalidate EVERYTHING I have said on this website? Would it invalidate the numerous people who have contacted me over this last year and a half? Of course not. Would it invalidate the arguments I have put forth for the legalization if incest? No, it would not.

I would say to any media bosses, the real story here is greater than my story, or Cristinas story, or anyone elses. It is the story of an oppressed minority group screaming out for acceptance and understanding. It is the story of a people who are just learning about themselves because their community is so new. It is the story of a subculture that is in it’s infancy and still forming. It is the story is a new youthful energy which desires to make an impression, correcting the horrific mistakes of it’s forebearers. It is the energy of a people who have remained silent about their oppression for far too long, a people who have patiently waited it out for the opportunity to speak. I, as one of the community leaders, am acting here in the capacity of an ambassador to the regulars. I am asking that our voice, our energy, our morals, our vibe to be heard and considered. We as a people have so much to offer to the world, if only given a chance.

I ask the media bosses to take all of this into consideration, because even if they do choose to ignore this plea, that the independant media is covering us periodically, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. The mainstream risks becoming out of step, and thus out of touch with the most recent developements. Love will win out in the end, and news outlets who do not recognize that exceptions must be made in some cases will become doomed to bypass some of the most interesting stories of our time.

Incestuous couples have been with humanity for as long as our species have existed. Some parts of the ancient world accepted us, it is only in relatively modern history that we have been oppressed completely. We’re asking that our voice be heard so that we can be re-integrated into society.

This is just heartless

Well here is, once again, another sad story of a couple being persecuted by the state, this time in Hong Kong. Let’s dive into the latest batch of drivel and see what we find:

The District Court sentenced a man on Monday to two years in prison for having sex with his 19-year-old biological daughter between 2009 and 2015. The daughter was handed a jail term of 14 months, suspended for two years.

As we always point out in these cases. that’s insane. It’s a heartless waste of taxpayers money that should have been spent catching actual criminals, you know, people who rape, murder and pillage. Instead those precious resources are being spent persecuting this couple for no other reason than the state disaproves of it. That’s called fascism, and it aint pretty.

The 58-year-old father – referred to as C.P.K to protect his identity – and his daughter, now 26, pleaded guilty earlier to two counts of incest.

Which they shouldn’t have had to for one simple reason: it should never have been in the courtroom in the first place.

Handing down the sentence, Judge Timothy Casewell said incest is a taboo in society as it damages trust among family members, HK01 reported.

No, it doesn’t. There is only a breach of trust if it is a case of rape, sexual abuse or child molestation. Clearly that isn’t the case here, she was a grown woman of 19 years of age, quite old enough to decide for herself… actually was same age I was when I entered a relationship with my dad. The judge here is way off base.

Counsel for the man pleaded in mitigation that imprisonment as a deterrent would not be beneficial to the pair, on the basis that their love was “misplaced” and the daughter was legally an adult during the time of the offence.

The only ‘misplaced’ thing I see is their analysis of the situation. Love is love, deal with it. Consenting adults are consenting adults, it should make no difference to the law whether they are related or not.

The court heard that the daughter offered to have sex with her father, then 51-year-old, after seeing him looking depressed. They continued the relationship and filmed their encounters.

Their relationship came to light in 2015 after the woman’s younger brother found a memory card containing six video clips of their sexual acts. The brother reported it to police out of fear that his sister was being sexually assaulted. He later dropped out of school as he felt affected by the discovery.

Note to anybody reading this: If you’re in a relationship with a relative and you’re tempted to make a little home made porn…. just don’t. It can be used as evidence if it’s ever discovered.

Now let’s consider the brother for a moment. He, like most of society was programmed to believe that incest is inherently bad, dysfunctional and sick. He made the assumption that most people given that programming would make, he assumed his sister was being abused. So he made the report to the cops probably believing he was protecting his sister. Misguided yes, but very understandable. As to his dropping out of school, he likely does not want to face others who might taunt him over his sister and their dad… and isn’t that a sad state of affairs. The problem is the incestophobia, not this couple.

The man admitted to police that he had had sex with his daughter twice, while the daughter said she willingly had sex with her father. She said no monetary exchange was involved and she felt happy each time after the acts.

Here we go, she was a willing participant, she felt happy about it. What more can I say other than prosecuting them is stupid, heartless, and completely unneccessary. Who has benefited from this prosecution? The state? No, it costs money to sue and imprison people. The brother? No, he’s been emotionally harmed by this as well. Society? No, because consanguinamorous couples do not harm society. Finally, the couple themselves have been harmed by this prosecution and the imprisonment of the father.

Under the Crimes Ordinance, the offence of incest carries a maximum penalty of 14 years behind bars.

Something that needs to change, there should never be a penalty attached to consensual sex of any kind. It’s ridiculous. The taboo surrounding incest creates harm, it puts barriers up so that people who really are being abused are not going to want to come forward. This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it needs to be changed, and the sooner the better.

The impact of discrimination on mental health

I feel that this essay is probably long overdue, especially considering the results of the consanguinamory study. I was unsurprised, but still very saddened by the sheer number of people who are suffering mental health difficulties as a direct result of either fearing persecution, or actually being persecuted. Of all the people who took the survey, 56.6% reported having suffered at least one troubling mental health issue because of this, and 57.8% of those who reported a problem reported more than one problem. Needless to say this number is unacceptably, intolerably high.

As expected, anxiety (31.2% of us) and depression (15.2%) were the main problems people were experiencing. Now, I know some of our critics will be nodding their heads saying ‘see, look at your own stats, isn’t that proof that these relationships are unhealthy’… and my answer would be no, not at all. If those people could for one moment put themselves into the shoes of the average consang couple. You can’t tell others the true nature of your relationship because it might land you in jail, you have to watch your every move, you do not have the same legal rights as everyone else, the world makes horrible assumptions about people just like you. Imagine going through all that on top of the usual ups and downs which ordinarily happen within a relationship. Imagine the fear caused by bigotry and persecution, all because of who you love. If you can imagine all that, then understanding how this leads to anxiety and depression should be easy. If people are subjected to high levels of stress caused by their environment for prolonged periods of time, then it can and does lead to these sorts of problems.

What I found most troubling, was the 4.2% of us who had suicidal thoughts. This is something that people just don’t talk about, how discrimination can literally destroy people, and in extreme cases it can lead to people taking their own lives believing that it’s the only way out in a world that just refuses to accept them as they are. This may sound like a tiny percentage, but it’s about one in 21 suffering like this. In real terms, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of needless and senseless suffering. If any critics reading this have a shred of empathy, they should realize that although they may disagree with what we are, we’re human beings and their attitudes are what leads to the discrimination that hurts people, even to this extent. I doubt any decent human being would actually want to be part of a problem which can be deadly. When 4.2% of any minority has had thoughts about killing themselves, something must be done to tackle the problem. This is why I am writing this essay, to appeal to peoples common decency and empathy.

Of course, all this stress can cause a whole raft of problems for people, even when it’s not so extreme. 13% are suffering with insomnia, no doubt lying awake at night worrying about the possibility of discrimination if they’re discovered. Of course, sleep deprivation in itself can be hazardous to health in many ways, it can lead to depression, weakened immune system and impair a persons ability to function normally simply because they’re too tired to think straight.

Then there are those who get to sleep just fine, but because they are strugging to cope with the fear of discrimination, and likely push it to the back of their minds while they’re awake, it all comes out in nightmares. 8.7% of us suffer from these nightmares depicting our worst case scenarios. The mind has to process our fears and emotions somehow, and dreams are one way in which it does so.

6.9% of us suffer from panic attacks. Again, this is happening to people who try their best to hold in their emotions, but after bottling it up to a large degree the mind and body must let go of all that negativity somehow. Sometimes this is expressed as a panic attack. This is yet another way in which negativity and discrimination is impacting peoples health.

Finally, there is the 13.4% of us who suffer from mood swings. When under constant stress and living in fear, this isn’t surprising at all. In fact it’s surprising that the numbers aren’t bigger. Who doesn’t get jumpy when under pressure?

So, what can we do to combat this?

As is often the case there is no simple or quick solutions. In the long term, our plans are to remove the negativity by campaigning for equality. This will be of benefit to consang people for centuries to come, but it doesn’t do anything to help those who are suffering RIGHT NOW.

This in mind, I want every single person who is going through these problems to know that this community is here for you. We’re not therapists nor are we doctors, but we’re your fellow human beings, and we may be able to help in some small ways, even if just as a listening ear. Please, join our forum, Kindred Spirits, contact with others who are going through the same issues is of great benefit to people, you know, just being around others who understand. We have to stick together and be there for each other.

On another note there are some things you can do to help reduce your stress levels and thus decrease the risk of things getting worse:

  1. Take some time to participate in leisure activities – Anything which helps you relax or enjoy yourself. You might for instance go for a long walk to clear your head, get some other form of exercise, go our for a nice meal…etc
  2. Move someplace where nobody knows you, thus instantly decreasing the risk of being caught.
  3. Learn meditation or relaxation techniques.
  4. Take up a hobby which involves making nice things.
  5. Reduce consumption of caffeine and alcohol.
  6. Take a long bath and let the water relax you.
  7. Make your home the most relaxing space possible.
  8. Empower yourself by recognising that it’s others with the problem, NOT YOU.
  9. Make sure you eat healthily.

This isn’t an exclusive list of course, there are probably many more things you can do, but you get the general idea. Make sure you take the time to look after yourself, your physical and mental well being are important, especially for us because of the long term stress we have to endure.


The statistics show the extent of suffering caused by discrimination and fear of discrimination. These numbers should be considered hard proof that equal rights are needed, because discrimination ruins peoples health by exposing them to intolerable levels of stress and anguish. Just because some of us are coping okay does not make discrimination okay, because it’s far from okay, and we as a community are NOT willing to put up with it any more. We’ve been oppressed for centuries, we’re barely understood by the mainstream and a whole raft of myths are out there about us. It’s time these things came to an end… for our health at the very least.

While all the above is true, there are also things we can do to help ourselves and each other, and we should do them. We can take some responsibility for looking after ourselves by doing whatever is possible to reduce the risk of being caught, and also learning how to switch off and relax. It’s not always easy of course, and we all fall short at times and let stress get the better of us. But surely failing sometimes is better than letting ourselves be blown around in the wind feeling powerless to overcome our emotions and fears. All of us are afraid sometimes, and considering what we’re up against, it’s not at all surprising. But, it’s the difference between you controlling your fear and your fear controlling you… and that can mean the difference between coping and not coping.

Ultimately, know this: we ARE going to win this battle, no matter how long it takes. We as a community DO NOT deserve to be discriminated against, and we DO NOT deserve to suffer these mental health issues as a result of that discrimination. Our battle is a righteous one, and a very winnable one because nothing our critics have thus far put forth has actually stood up to scrutiny. Fallacies, repeating myths, and prejudice do not form legitimate arguments. Our opponents may seem strong, and they sure are numerous, but their arguments against equality hold about as much water as a paper box. So every time you feel you’re getting stressed, imagine that paper box being filled with water, and collapsing just as quickly.

Consanguinamorous Reproduction Study

Well folks, I said I was going to be doing more studies, and this is the next one in what will eventually be a long series. I have chosen to tackle this subject first because it’s one of the first things that our critics go for when objecting to making our relationships legal.

It’s completely anonymous, like the last study, and it is going to run for one year (longer if I have not collected enough data by then). This survey is only for people who have had a child through consanguinamory.

Unlike with the other study, which was just to gain some basic demographics, answers to all questions are required on this one. I realize that some of the questions may seem probing, but they’re necessary to gain a complete picture of pregnancy and reproduction via consanguinamory.

If you wish to take part in this study please CLICK HERE and just follow the instructions in the survey. Thank you in advance for your participation 🙂

Getting Caught and how to avoid it

Since doing the consanguinamory study, I have noticed that there are a LOT of topics that we need to cover more about. However this is one of the most pressing in my opinion. My study revealed that 21.4% of us are getting caught by others. This is clearly an unnacceptably high number, especially since most of us live in countries where it is illegal, and in some of those countries the penalty for incest is life in prison (the kind of sentence you’d hope would be reserved for murderers, rapists and child molesters).

People, we need to think about this, seriously think about our security. Getting caught is something that many of us get compacent about, we think ‘oh, we’ll never get caught, that’s something that happens to other people’…. but it can, and my study shows that it often does. We simply cannot afford such complacentcy, not in the current climate. All of us are potentially at risk, and this is something we have to recognize.

There are two main ways of getting caught:

Being Caught in the act

This is the worst possible way for an outsider to discover your relationship, as not only are they confronted by the fact that you are together in that way, but they also got an eyeful of something that they didn’t want to see and may in fact disgust them. Being caught in the act leaves you at their mercy, at a time when they’re likely to feel confused, angry, distressed, and possibly grossed out. If this happens you are relying soley on damage control efforts to at least get the other person not to report you to the police or tell anyone else.

Incriminating evidence

This isn’t much better to be honest, but at least the regular who discovered you didn’t get an eyeful. The sort of evidence I’m talking about is the undeniable kind, stuff like sexts being visible on your phone and then leaving said phone alone in the company of a known nosey friend or relative (okay they shouldn’t invade your privacy, but some people just don’t respect privacy), used condoms carelessly left visible in the bathroom bin when they could have come from nobody else…etc. These things are perfectly avoidable with a bit of planning and protocols in place. Again, you’re left entirely at the mercy of the person who discovered these things.

How do I avoid getting caught?

Many things on this list will seem pretty obvious, but be honest with yourself as you read them, how many of these rules are YOU breaking:

  • Do not leave any evidence of your relationship on any electronic devices. This means you have to wipe off any sexts after you’ve responded to them, lest any nosey friends or relatives need to borrow your phone for any reason.
  • Do not leave any evidence of your relationship on social media. Yes, this does mean you have to refrain from constantly talking about your other half, but really, if you don’t want to arouse suspicion, then don’t post stuff on your status that might indicate that you’re more than family.
  • Make sure you’re not seen. This is very obvious, but some people don’t take proper precautions in the heat of the moment, especially not after a good night out. If you’ve got a lock on your door, use it. Don’t be noisy if you’re sharing a house with others, don’t have sex outdoors or in the car…etc. I know it might seem like I’m being boring and preaching to the choir, but it’s extremely important and I feel the need to say these things.
  • Be careful how you act around each other in public. I know it can be hard, but switch to being in ‘family mode’ when these others are around. So no holding hands, cuddling up to each other, and definitely no snogging. This rule applies most obviously when you’re around others who know you as family, but also in situations where it is possible to run into others who know you as family too, say for instance if you’re out together in the local town center. The rule can however be dropped if you’re someplace where NOBODY knows you, like if you go away on holiday to another country.
  • If you share a house together make sure that you have a ‘room each’ for show at least, and tell people that you’re sharing to keep costs down. It’s a believable lie and nobody will question it.
  • Avoid telling your children (I’m assuming here that they’re minors, not adult children), kids have a way of letting the truth slip, and at a tender age it is most unfair to burden them with your secret. But if they already know, you MUST stress on them the need to keep it quiet and explain to them that some people wouldn’t approve of the relationship and it could get you into trouble.
  • Seems obvious, but tell nobody if at all possible. The fewer people know, the safer you are.

This is a pretty good checklist for a starting point, think about what you’re doing and do not succumb to complatentcy, it CAN happen, to any of us.

I’ve already been caught, what should I do?

If despite your best attempts to keep your relationship a secret, you’ve been discovered anyway, there are a few things you can do.

First of all: DON’T PANIC. Not everyone is against us, and even some of those who disapprove may realize that reporting you is not the answer.

Encourage the person who has found you out to to ask questions, and answer those questions honestly. This gives the other person the chance to gain some understanding and possibly become more supportive. Remember, this person is probably worried that one of you is some kind of ‘victim’, this is your chance to show that this isn’t the case, and that your relationship is perfectly healthy. Such reassurance can make the difference between you being reported or not.

At this stage it’s about damage control at first, but more than that, it’s about showing that person that there isn’t anything wrong with you both, or your relationship. It is showing them that love is love, and that all love deserves equality. If this approach is taken, it could turn their shock into their support. Of course, don’t get preachy about it, just let them see you for who you really are.

I repeat, the best way to stay safe is to not get caught in the first place, but if you are, let them ask questions, answer them honestly and GIVE THEM TIME to digest the information.

One day this will cease to be an issue, but for now it is one, and a pretty large one in my opinion. Stay safe out there people 🙂