Nothing off Limits, my second interview

Well folks, as promised, I did it again, I went back to do a second episode with Michelle to cover the results of the consanguinamory study. We discuss that and a few more things also.

I’ve built up a wonderful rapport with Michelle, and I can tell you that this appearance will not be my last on her show (unless I’m unlucky enough to get hit by a bus or something). She is a true ally and is genuinely fascinated by all that she has learned about us over the last few months. This is a quality that is uncommon in people, and it is wonderful for us to have found such an open minded and intellectually honest independant journalist willing to cover our stories. Just look at what she has to say about haters on her blog, and you’ll see what I mean.

She is a real gem, and my thanks go out to her once more for giving me this platform to speak for us. If you’re reading Michelle, may God bless you because we certainly do 🙂

A new blog, and a word of thanks

Some good news today guys 🙂 KS member LoveIsLove has created a wonderful new website called Consanguinamorous Rainbow with the aim to giving advice and information about consanguinamory. He has also been rather busy over the last couple of weeks working on the Consanguinamory Wiki I created a while back, but didn’t do much with. So I am asking all members of the community to bookmark these pages and check back regularly for updates, and also to say thank you to LoveIsLove for his recent contributions to our resources. Welcome to the team, friend,  and well done 🙂

Please read URGET

No, really, that’s not a spelling error. It’s actually the title of a particilarly moronic piece of hate mail sent to Cristina last night while I was chatting with her on Facebook, which, with her permission, I have decided to cover.

I will have to cut off at some points for commentary, as within this block paragraph of doom there are no commas, full stops, or punctuation of any kind. It’s a huge run-on sentence, or should I say, rant. We all know ten year olds who can write better than this, but to hell with the terrible writing, let’s get on with the content:

You people are f****** disgusting lilysgardenercom it’s f****** wrong

She opens by expressing her disgust, uses an expletive, and then asterisks it out… which begs the question, why include swear words if you don’t have the bollocks to keep them in? This is repeated throughout the whole letter, but lets continue:

and you guys probably will go to hell for incest I’m just letting you know you can’t do that it says in the Bible so so you’re going to hell

So, it’s wrong because the Bible says so. How convincing an argument. The Bible also forbids pork and clothes made of mixed fabrics. Remember guys, you’re going to Hell if you’re wearing a cotton/polyester shirt, or if you enjoyed a nice piece of bacon every now and then. When analyzing what the Bible says, it usually pays to apply a hefty dose of common sense, especially when dealing with the ancient laws written down in Leviticus.

I wonder if she would be inclined to throw Abraham and Sarah into jail, or believes them to be burning in Hell for all eternity?… just saying. This chick doesn’t know as much about the Bible as she thinks she does. It’s not as cut and dry as she believes it to be, and if she had actually READ some of it, she would realize that.

and honestly when you have a child probably with the f****** whatever Brothers your maybe your sister maybe you’re lesbian is sick

Was that a homophobic slur? I think it was. She seems to think that Cristina is going to have a baby with her brother… or with her sister if she’s a lesbian, which according to her is sick. Um. Don’t know how to break it to her, but two women cannot procreate through having sex. As for the sentence structure here, if indeed it was intended as a complete sentence (again, it’s hard to tell because of lack of grammar) it’s pretty incoherent, and difficult to tell what specifically she intended to say.

oh you’re raping your family member and you’re going to have some f****** in breeded children so spread some in breeds around this f****** world

Rape, who the hell mentioned rape? Nobody on any site in this netword advocates for raping anyone, including family members. We ACTUALLY advocate for consenting adults who are in consanguinamorous relationships to be allowed to live their lives without being harassed or persecuted by the state, or anyone else for that matter.

If I’m reading this tirade correctly, she believes that if family members rape each other, it leads to spreading inbreeding around? What? That makes no sense at all.

and I swear to god dude you will go to hell I’m not trying to hurt your feelings but I’m trying to warn you about hell because honestly you’re going to go to help for f****** brother

Trying to warn us about hell… maybe that’s what she thinks she is doing, but in reality she is making herself look like a complete idiot. I’m sure God has better things to worry about that who is doing what with their genitals.

Also, she cannot be legitimately claiming to NOT wanting to hurt our feelings when hitting the ‘send’ button on a huge incestophobic rant with rape advocacy accusations and ‘spreading inbreeding around’. We’re not thick enough to fall for that one.

oh and encouraging all these people in the world to f*** their family members is another reason why u are going to hell

No, actually nobody encourages people to engage in incestuous activity, we simply provide support and information to people already involved, and try to raise awareness of our community. Clearly she hasn’t read a word of Cristinas site.

and not disease you made up is a f****** lie and it’s disgusting sexual attraction to your family

First off, Genetic Sexual Attraction is a genuine phenomenon. Had she bothered to google it, she would have realized that GSA is a thing, it’s not some made up ‘disease’. We don’t classify consanguinamory as a disease anyway thank you very much, it’s an orientation, asswipe.

I understand if you say yeah my family members are beautiful or something but oh I want to f*** my brother your f****** weird and yeah you’re deranged and sick

Translation: I have a strong Westermarck effect and find incest disgusting, anyone who disagrees with me is weird, sick and deranged.

Not much more to say about this except closed minded and bigoted.

and by the way I’m up playing with you if you don’t stop posting s*** about f****** family members

Playing with us? So this whole rant is a joke then? Maybe we should take it as such because nothing we’ve reviewed so far has lead us to take her seriously. Actually, me and Cristina had a bloody good laugh about it last night.

I am going to take you off this internet and throw you in jail lady for encouraging incest

Actually, she can’t do that. Freedom of speech includes expressing unpopular opinions, and again, nobody is encouraging incest, we simply provide a supportive environment for people who are or who have been involved. There is nothing illegal about anything on these websites.

and thinking you guys have the right to talk about family members and the wrong ways if you knew who my father was Lady you would never have made this website

How the hell would we know who her father is? Why should we care? If he was anyone of consequence or intelligence, he would have explained the free speech laws to her. Chances are, he works stacking shelves or flipping burgers. So, if this was an attempt to put the frighteners on us; epic fail.

my father knows about this now and he is really going to f*** your s*** up

As Cristina said in her reply e-mail: Good luck with that.

and we aren’t even from here so I mind you you might want to pack your belongings that all the incest know they need to cross the border to Mexico and go f*** themselves over there and get out of God damn America because we’re not trying to have America get f***** up by you sick m************

‘all the incest know’? Maybe ‘all the incoherence know of the writing not good’. Sorry guys, I just had to, you know. She isn’t even from America, but she wants Cristina out of America? That just doesn’t make any sense. Trying to make sense of this is causing my IQ points to be reduced by about 10.

I’m not playing with you my father is going to f****** take your website down and we’re going to blast you and sending this in on the news and you’re going to be f****** embarrassed 

She does realize that Cristina has spoken with many a journalist… right? That talking to the media (providing that it’s anonymous) doesn’t phase us, right? Well, she can try to embarrass us, but we are not embarassed by our sexuality, and nor should we be.

So here ends the rant of doom. Really, we had a good hard laugh at this one. The lame threats, the butchery of the English language, the spelling mistake in the title… none of it leads us to take this seriously. She got angry, real angry, but in the end her anger and her ranting produced the opposite of the desired effect. It does not scare us, it made us laugh.

My grade: D- Try harder next time.

Genetic Engineering and Consanguinamory

Well folks, another day, another great topic up for discussion at Kindred Spirits. This time it’s genetic engineering and it’s relevance to us as a community. After responding to the thread, I thought it deserved an article of it’s own because I hadn’t covered it yet and it’s something that could potentially be of great importance to us at some point in the future.

As we all know too well, one of the most commonly cited objections to the legalization of incest is the ‘mutant babies’ argument, namely that incest leads to disabilities and deformities in the resulting children. While most often this is not the case, and most babies born to consang parents are healthy, we must accept and acknowledge that we do bear greater risks than our regular counterparts. Therefore the choice to bear a child must be taken very carefully, ideally after genetic testing to ensure that we are fully aware of any genetic nasties which may be lurking unseen, and the risks of these abnormalities being expressed should a baby be conceived.

Like all parents, consang couples want their offspring to be as healthy as they can be, and this is where the subject of genetic engineering comes in. Now, I know that the thought of genetic engineering fills peoples heads with horrendous experiments gone wrong. It helps none that labs are creating corn crops which contain their own pesticide which kills bees, other vital insect life and field mice whilst contaminating the land, they’ve made bioluminescent pigs and cats, and even goats which produce spider silk, and probably MUCH more than that. Such things are true abominations, animal abuse, contamination of the food chain, and they make me question the sanity of those conducting these awful experiments.

However, with regards to our community, these things are far removed from the potential benefits which genetic engineering can have when the technology and science is used responsibly. Here, I am speaking of the type of genetic engineering which replaces a faulty gene with a healthy copy (one which already exists within the gene pool of the organism thus not introducing anything foreign) with the view to preventing serious and debilitating conditions which limit the quantity and quality of life. Used this way, genetic engineering should not create such a degree of moral or ethical quandry, and nor should it have significant impact on the evolution of our species.

Say we have a hypothetical brother and sister couple, they’re both young and healthy, but a genetic test reveals that they both carry arecessive ‘bad copy’ of a gene which could lead to a debilitating condition, but have a good dominant copy and so neither sibling is expressing the disease. If they chose to have a baby, there is a 25% chance that the child will express homozygous recessive ‘bad copy’ genes (meaning the child has the genetic disease), a 25% chance of homozygous healthy copy genes (the child doesn’t carry ANY copy of the bad genes), and a 50% chance of the child having heterozygous bad and healthy genes like the parents (recessive bad copy, but dominant healthy copy). So, all in all, a 75% chance that the baby will be okay, and a 25% chance that it will express the disease. Yes, I know this is a very simplistic example because many diseases are caused by more than one gene, but it’s sufficient that you get the general idea.

At this point, the couple have a choice, they could forego having children of their own and adopt one instead, she could use a sperm bank (which would make the pregnancy the same risk as for regulars), they could take their chances and hope that they get a favourable outcome, or they could ensure that their child will be healthy by using genetic engineering. If they go for this procedure, it would mean that an egg would be taken from her ovary, and he would need to provide a sperm sample. They would then choose a sperm with the ‘healthy copy’ gene to fertilize the egg, which would then be implanted into her uterus at the correct time in her monthly cycle. This would be the max that would need to be done to ensure that the baby is healthy without actually tampering with the gene pool. The child would be 100% genetically theirs, but without playing the genetic lottery. In essence, it would be a glorified test tube baby.

Morally, I see no problem in such a scenario. We’re not contaminating the gene pool with foreign genetic codes from other species, we’re not talking about designer babies and all the ethical considerations that brings, not least it’s potential impact on our evolution. We’re simply talking about disease prevention, and removing the ‘mutant babies’ argument from the table of our critics. The technology exists, and it can be used in this restricted and responsible way to prevent unnecessary suffering. It is not only our people that could benefit from it’s use, but also regulars who carry bad genes which can effect the health of their children. Remember, regular pregnancies aren’t risk free either. What about people with Huntingtons disease and stuff like that? Wouldn’t the lives of their kids be better off if they can guarantee that they’re are not going to suffer a serious degenerative condition? Of course.

It may not be such an issue right now because people object to genetic engineering for a wide range of reasons, including religious objections. However, at some point in the future, this technology will be roled out for wider medical use, and when it is, it should be used responsibly and it can be of great benefit to anyone who has concerns about the genetic health of their children. For us, it will knock ‘mutant babies’ straight off the table, further weakening the argument of our opponents. If used responsibly, this technology has the potential to do a lot of good in the world, for a lot of people. It is not a thing to be feared, it’s called progress, but like with many things, the more we know, the greater our responsibility to use such technology wisely.