The morality of consanguinamorous reproduction

Ok guys, a while back I wrote an article called whether to have kids and how. In that article I outlined what reproductive choices are available to people and the pros and cons of each option. That said, there has been a bit of a debate on the forums about the morality of consang couples actually having genetic children of their own. I’m writing this article to explore different points of view. As always there is no simple answer to questions like these and it is for individuals to decide what is right for them. The very last thing we need to do is pour judgement upon each other on sensitive issues like this. God knows, we get enough of that shit from the rest of the world.

On what do we base our morality? This is a good question, and for many people there are multiple sources: society, religion, personal feelings, opinions of friends and family…etc. All of these things shape our perceptions of what is acceptable and what is not. However, since our community already bucks the status quo on what is considered moral and immoral, for us there must be something extra, some other source of morality. These sources are logic, compassion and empathy, they exist independantly of any of the above, and actually throws up some surprising results. Not just about this topic but about any other you wish to analyze.

Simply stated, for something to be considered immoral, it must necessarily cause avoidable harm to another human being. This harm need not be physical, it can be financial, mental or spiritual in nature. Our empathy and compassion tells us that harming other people is wrong, because we would not want this kind of thing done to ourselves.

So what does this have to do with reproduction by consanguinamory? Plenty, as you will soon see. Lets imagine a hypothetical boy called Steve, he is 8 years old and has a learning disability, and his parents are brother and sister. He is generally a happy child and is otherwise healthy.

Is it his parents fault that he is has a learning disability?

Steve could not be any different than he is. If his mother had conceived through a sperm bank or with another man in a different relationship, then Steve would never have been born, she would have given birth to a completely different person. This line of reasoning throws up another question.

Would it have been better for Steve if he had never been born?

Since he is in otherwise good health, and is a happy child… obviously not. His quality of life is good, even though he sometimes gets frustrated when he does not understand something.

Since we can determine that it is NOT better off for Steve to have never been born, we can also determine that he was not harmed by the fact of his conception.

Is it immoral to have a disabled child when such could have been prevented or at least the risks reduced?

While no pregnancies are risk-free, children born of incest are at a slightly elevated risk of having a disability. We must be honest here and take this question into serious consideration.

The only way for anybody to be 100% certain of not bringing a disabled child into the world is never having children. We also have to consider the morality of ANYONE at elevated risks having a child. For instance, if we were to determine that relatives should not reproduce because of the increased risk, then is it similarly immoral for a woman over 40 to get pregnant, or for a family where both husband and wife carry the genes for Tay Sachs or Huntingtons Disease? Some people would argue yes, however I disagree.

Is it morally okay to restrict peoples freedom of choice?

Undoubtedly, SOME restrictions on personal freedom are necessary to make the world a safer place. A good example of this would be the speed limit in residential areas, because a car racing around a housing estate at 60mph could potentially kill somebody. The minor inconvenience of arriving home slower than one would like is a small price to pay for communal safety.

That said, some restrictions on our freedoms aren’t so cut and dry as this. One of those freedoms is sexual and reproductive autonomy. What we should not do is go purely by logic and cut out the complexities of emotion and human relationships, to do so would be a denial of our humanity.

Firstly, and this is to make it extremely clear: Having sex and having a baby are two very different things, one may lead to the other, but certainly not always or even usually. Some couples cannot reproduce regardless of how much sex they may have, this would include homosexual relationships, relationships including women who are post menopausal, where a medical condition or medication prevents the possibility of a pregnancy…etc. Even in relationships where a pregnancy COULD happen, oftentimes it does not. Many people citing mutant babies as a reason to deny us our rights conveniently forget the highly effective and readily available forms of contraception available. Unless there is a medical reason not to, the contraceptive pill is a very good choice. So citing mutant babies as a reason to deny people the right of sexual autonomy is really a very bad argument indeed.

Another argument put forward is that the resulting child would end up being bullied because he or she was the product of incest. Yet this argument also falls flat on it’s face: the problem is that there are bullies who are not being appropriately reprimanded, not that the bullied child exists in the first place! Remove the stigma and deal with the bullies, don’t dare tell people that they can’t have kids because some other peoples kids are out of control! What sort of backwards argument is that anyway? Do we, as civillized human beings, cower down to such bullshit, or do we stand up and say that enough is enough? You cannot blame a consang couple for the fact that their child is being bullied, you place the blame where it belongs, with the bullies who are actually doing it. To do anything else is really a form of victim blaming, and that is never acceptable.

restricting peoples freedom based on harm which MIGHT occur, or on other peoples reactions to such freedom being exercised is a road to nowhere. It’s despotic, authoritarian and arbitrary, it is also hate and fear masquerading as social concen and science. It is not legitimate.

In all instances, freedom of choice is a precious thing which should be protected and defended to the utmost. If you are not allowed to choose the partner you want, and whether or not you want children, then can you really believe that you are a free person? I say not. I am not saying everyone must agree with everyone elses choices in life, that would be ridiculous, however they must agree that people should be free to make those choices. Restricting such freedom is highly immoral and is actually suppressing genuine diversity. It is up to each person to weigh up the pros and cons of any choice for themselves, they do not need a nanny state to make such choices for them. We are not children, and we will not be treated as such by our own governments.


Updates and reminders

Okay everyone, just a couple of important updates and reminders.

As we all know, our friend  Richard has made quite a few petitions for us to sign in order to get legislation changed in various places around the world. Thankfully he has provided me with a full list of his petitions very recently so I didn’t miss any out. If you haven’t signed them already, or aren’t sure if you got them all or not, then please visit my ongoing petitions page for the whole list.

On another note, The Consanguinamory Study is going to come to a close on May 25th, I would urge anyone who has experience of consanguinamory but hasn’t participated in this study yet to do so before the closing date as there is only a few weeks left for it to run.

What will it take?

What will it take for the world to change, for people to truly recognise us as equal human beings? How many more must suffer the injustice of having their family units ripped apart by a cold and inhumane system all because of who they love? How many more lynchmobs will attack or even kill innocent couples around the world? How many more will take their own lives because they cannot bear the shame they’re forced to endure? How many more chidren will be forced to bear a stigma associated with their parentage, told that they should never have existed in the first place? How many people will avoid seeking the medical or psychological help they need out of fear of being discovered? How many more will be incarcerated and abused simply because they hold a love that dare not speak it’s name?

We as a community suffer so much injustice, so much hate, and yet we endure, we do the best we can to protect ourselves by wrapping ourselves in a veil of secrecy. We are amazing, strong and beautiful people. We should be a beacon of shining light in the world, for the fire of our double-love can never be extinguished no matter how much water is thrown upon us.

We have sat back and watched LGBT people come forth and claim their birthright to be who they truly are, to have their love celebrated and recognized as it should be. Guess what folks, it’s OUR TURN now. How many more must suffer before enough of us answer to call to serve and defend our people? The world needs to relieved of it’s ignorance and fear, we need to show our true inner beauty to the world. What could possibly be more beautiful than two people literally being EVERYTHING to each other, friends, family, lovers and soulmates? Consanguinamory is the most beautiful, intense, powerful, deep and pure kind of love imaginable. It is the exact opposite of what the world believes about us.

All we’re asking for is the right to be treated the same as everyone else, the right not to be persecuted by the state or anyone else. Those of us on the frontlines are asking for all those who dare not ask, speaking out for the minority we belong to, whose voice is currently much too quiet. What will it take for that quiet voice that’s barely a whisper in the world to become the loud roar in needs to be to get the attention and respect it deserves? Yes, there is always risk involved in activism, but the cause is bigger than any of us, and you know what, the double-love we experience, that is what makes it all worthwhile. Not a single one of us should have to live in fear, and we will not rest until the cause of our enduring silence is removed: the unjust laws.

Yet there is something else I feel I must say: You cannot change the world while you still fear it. You cannot changed a closed mind if you’re worried about what that mind is thinking about you. Other peoples problems with us are not our problems, they’re their problems. A simple shift in perspective and all becomes clear. We’ve traditionally been a timid minority, but this is changing, as it must. We do not simply bow down to unfair and damaging laws and customs and obey them, and we’re under no moral obligation to do so, and doing so is actually keeping the injustice in place. Remember, it’s our time to shine.

An outrageous case of discrimination UPDATE 9: It’s finally over

Well guys, it’s been a whole year since we first heard of Monica and Caleb being persecuted in New Mexico simply for having a relationship. The case has now been to court, and there is both good news and bad news. The good news is that they aren’t in jail, the bad news is that they’re on probation and are not allowed to contact each other. Let’s dive into this brief article:

CLOVIS, NM (KETK)  – A 37-year-old woman and her 20-year-old biological son have pleaded guilty to a charge of incest.

Monica Mares and Caleb Peterson were confronted by a neighbor about their incestuous relationship in February of 2016, and police were called to the scene where the couple admitted they were sexually involved.

Their relationship shouldn’t have been anyones business but their own. A neighbor doing a thing like that is downright vindictive and nasty. Think about it for a moment, we have a loving couple who were bringing good into each others lives, and the law allows some outsider to totally destroy things on the basis of morality. The only immorality I see here is responding to such love with such hate. This is precisely the reason we need legislative changes to accommodate our community.

On Wednesday, jury selection began for the trial; the two accepted the plea agreements and were sentenced before the Honorable Drew D. Tatum. Both will spend a year and a half under supervised probation and are prohibited from contact with each other. Another year and a half will be served as unsupervised probation.

Not allowed to contact each other. That’s terrible. Imagine not being allowed to contact your partner by a court order. Since they did nothing wrong, this is both inhumane and unnecessary. It’s disgusting as a matter of fact. Being put on probation is still being treated as a criminal, these people are NOT criminals, they are a loving couple.

District Attorney Andrea Reeb prosecuted the cases for the State of New Mexico. Reeb explained to the Court that she felt probation was an appropriate resolution to the matters to as neither Defendant had a criminal record and putting them in prison would accomplish nothing. Reeb also stated that treatment was more important in these types of matters.

Treatment? Like what, conversion therapy? Because we all know how well that turned out for gay people don’t we. Again, this strikes at the heart of the problem in society, we are dehumanized, passed off as sick and mentally defective, and treated as criminals. The mental stability of consang people is just fine thank you very much. I find the very concept of such ‘treatment’ offensive, because there is nothing to treat. How dare anyone pass such a judgement, especially somebody in a courtroom whose speciality is the law, she isn’t a mental health professional so how can she even say that they need ‘treatment’? I’m nothing short of disgusted and I bet you are too.

I wish Monica and Caleb the very best, and hope that if they choose to get back together when their probation is up, they move someplace safe. This community will always be there for them, and anyone else who needs us. We will not stop until we have our equal rights, and when that happens, the world will be a better place. A mother and son having a relationship will not be something that even qualifies as news by that point.

Cristina Shy on Genetic Sexual Attraction

This amazing interview with my friend Cristina is now available, if you haven’t heard it already I would suggest you CLICK HERE and spare your ears for a little over half an hour, you’ll be glad you did. I would like to thank both Cristina and Michelle for producing this wonderful treat for us all… but that’s not all, next week she is going to be interviewing me too, and I’ll post a link to that one once it’s done and up.

I have created a permanent section for these interviews in Miscellaneous, where any such further materials may be added when new ones are created.

Tips for staying happy in a world that’s hostile

Although it’s a rather sad fact of life, a lot of people do not accept our sexuality as something that’s acceptable, and this can negatively impact our lives in a number of ways. That said, there are plenty of things we can do to help ourselves stay happier in a world that feels more like a minefield than a welcoming place.

AVOID HATERS – If you see an article that is likely to contain incestophobic bigotry, and you feel that you can’t handle it right now and you’re likely to be upset by what it contains, you don’t have to read it. Remember that although even idiots are allowed to have their say, it should not stop you from living and enjoying your truth to the fullest. If you’re already feeling down and hated upon, you don’t need to read more stuff that is going to reinforce that in your mind, what you do need is to build yourself up. Remember, their hate is not your problem, it is their problem, and people who hate on others in this way don’t know what they are talking about anyway.

HAVE HOLIDAYS IN OR MOVE TO CONSANG FRIENDLY COUNTRIES/PLACES WHERE NOBODY KNOWS YOU – I know, not everyone can afford it, but for those of you who can, go someplace for a week where your relationship is legal. Such short breaks away can recharge your batteries and give you the time as a couple to be yourselves without fear. If you can’t afford a trip abroad then even taking a trip to a place where nobody knows you will have the same rejuvenating effect. Having to watch your step all of the time can be exhausting, so these breaks every now and then are necessary for your mental health.

If you’re really struggling with this particular issue, then there is always the option of permanent relocation. You could, for instance, get a job there and use the job as a reason for the move. That way nobody is any the wiser, and you minimize the risk of being caught while allowing yourselves more freedom to actually be who you are.

BE KIND TO YOURSELVES – Never berate yourself or wish you were somebody or something different, instead find ways to truly celebrate your consang identity. You may not have chosen your sexuality, but that doesn’t mean that it has to be a negative thing in your life or something you wish would go away… it won’t. Love is love, and love is beautiful regardless of which form it takes. Consanguinamory is love on so many levels, allow yourself to be filled with love, and never fear to express it to your other half. Remember, different does not mean bad, it simply means ‘not the same as’.

GET SUPPORT ONLINE – Nobody should have to face all of the issues consang people face all by themselves, it’s a big bad world out there. One of the best things you can do for yourselves, whether you’re just starting out or have been together for years, is to join our forum Kindred Spirits. Just having a group of caring nonjudgmental people who are in the same boat as you, and who will understand you can make the world of difference. Whether it be to celebrate something great in your lives, or a shoulder to cry on in times of need. We all need such support from time to time and there is no place better than KS.

MINIMIZE YOUR RISK OF GETTING CAUGHT – I know it’s a pain, we can’t even hold hands in public for fear of getting found out and jailed. But establishing a few basic ground rules for your security is essential, basics like not flirting in public or sending each other sexual messages will help keep your nosey friends and neighbors in blissful ignorance. Check out my Ten rules to keeping your relationship a secret for more tips. Just observing such rules can make you feel more secure, and will have a positive effect on your state of wellbeing because you will feel less anxious.

MAKE TIME FOR EACH OTHER – This may sound obvious, and it’s essential for people in all types of relationship, but make sure you spend enough good quality time together where you can discuss things and resolve or iron our any issues you may be having. By this I mean TALKING, sitting together and watching a movie is a great and enjoyable thing to do, but it’s not what I mean here. Good communication and emotional intimacy is the basis for all healthy relationships, and it’s the same for consang people too. So take the time to enjoy each others company and appreciate each other fully, so that you’re both fullfilled emotionally, intellectually, sexually and spiritually. Also make sure that your work/life balance is in check (like not doing too much overtime unless you really need the extra money) and that you’re not doing opposite shifts unless this is strictly necessary (such as for the purposes of looking after the kids for instance), things like that can make a huge difference in how much quality time you are able to get. But for those of you who cannot manage a lot of time, just make the most of whatever time you do get.


There is a lot you can do to increase your own happiness as a consang person, you don’t have to feel like the victim of society or carry a chip on your shoulder. Surround yourself online with others who are the same as you and recognize your normality. We all deserve to love ourselves and be happy in love, we’re no exception to this rule. In short, we can enjoy our lives even through all the adversity we face, there is no reason why not. Actually, being happy and confident in ourselves is the ultimate fuck you to our haters, be bold, be YOU.

NEW: Petition for consang and poly rights in New Jersey

Again we have our friend and ally Richard to thank for this one, he really is a star when it comes to organizing these petitions, because this is an excellent way of giving us all the opportunity to show these governments that change is needed and wanted. So, if you want to make a difference: PLEASE SIGN HERE

As a reminder to everyone, there are other live petitions to sign too, so if you haven’t already done so, please check out this webpage for the list.

Mutant babies referenced again, this time in an animal cruelty case

Ok folks, this time we’ve got a case of inbred dogs who were suffering disabilities, but, let’s just tap into the article and analzye what’s been said:

A couple has been charged with animal cruelty after officials say they found 23 inbred dogs and puppies living in the family’s trash-strewn home on Winterton Road.

If there is trash everywhere, I doubt that the place is suitable for habitation by either human beings or animals. As sad as this is, it’s hardly surprising any more: animal charities rescue cats and dogs from filthy conditions all the time.

Chaboty said the cruelty charges relate to failure to provide necessary medical care to three dogs: Lady, a six-month-old female, determined to have a fractured pelvis; Bubba, a 6-month-old male with a severe ear infection; and a two-week-old male puppy with severe deformities and clear signs of malnutrition.

If the puppies were malnourished, then so were the bitches that carried them. At two weeks of age these puppies would have been dependant on mothers milk, if she was malnourished then it’s no surprise that her milk supply was not keeping up with the demand. Such malnutrition while they were in utero would have very likely contributed to skeletal abnormalities and fragility. While this could explain why one of those puppies had a fractured pelvis, such an injury could also have been caused by deliberate animal abuse, at this point we cannot rule it out.

Animal Control Officer Joanne Gerow said four of the puppies had to be euthanized due to the severity of their limb deformities and the likelihood of future severe medical issues.

Of course, this was the right thing to do because it prevented further unnecessary suffering, however I do not think we can blame these deformities on the inbreeding, it may or may not have been a contributing factor. But the fact that the dogs were malnourished and living in filthy conditions would have certainly had a bearing on the health of these pups, including their bone development. If they weren’t getting enough nutrition, then surely that would include the calcium needed for bone development.

“The vet is confident the deformities are due to the inbreeding,” Gerow said.

Like I said, it’s possible if the dogs were genetically unhealthy to start with, but the writer of this article COMPLETELY IGNORES the other factors which could contribute to abnormalities. Just like with people, animals born in a world of hunger and squalor fail to thrive and suffer a lot of medical problems, this shouldn’t surprise anyone.

The couple had started out with a male dog and a female dog, which were not neutered or spayed, officials said. The dogs bred, and some of their puppies eventually bred.

While it’s bad practice not to have your animals doctored if you’re not intending to breed them and/or are unwilling to care properly for a nursing bitch and her puppies, the fact that these dogs inbred at all should show anybody that incest exists in the animal kingdom, thus should be the final nail in the coffin for the idea that ‘it’s not natural’.

Building inspector Mary Grass issued violations against Nakdimen, citing an infestation of flies in the kitchen/dining room ceiling light, more than 30 bags worth of trash piled on and under the rear deck, and the unfinished basement converted to living/sleeping space without proper permits.

The couple’s children were allowed to stay in the home, as were two cats in satisfactory condition, officials said.

The conditions were THAT BAD and yet they allowed the CHILDREN to stay there? So, let me get this right: the conditions were too bad for the dogs, but okay for the kids? That makes no sense. Especially when you consider that the children of consanguinamorous couples, even when they’re kept in a clean, tidy, well fed, supporting and nurturing environment are routinely removed by social services. This only serves to prove that social services seem to care more about enforcing the letter of the law than actually advocating for and protecting the rights of children. Let’s just hope in this case that the children were better cared for than those poor dogs!

As a side note, I should mention that in the earliest days of getting a new pedigree of cat or dog established, breeders use both inbreeding and outbreeding to establish the desired traits in the offspring while ensuring enough genetic diversity to give the new pedigree a viable gene pool. The inbred generations in this process most often DO NOT suffer from deformities or disabilities, if they did, no new breeds could ever be established. The traits which the animal breeders are trying to get established are usually genetic mutations which first arose in just one animal, so without the inbreeding in the first few generations, it would not be possible to establish a whole new pedigree starting from a single animal with a random but desirable genetic mutation.