Montana and its incest law confusion

Okay guys, got a big one for you here. This story comes from Montana, and it’s pretty disgusting as you’ll soon see. These laws allow underage persons to be held as legally culpable for sleeping with their parents as the parents themselves. While I strongly believe that consensual incest between adults should not be a criminal offence (actually, pointing that out is one of the main purposes of this blog),  having sexual encounters with an underage person should be, whether that minor is related to you or not. Okay, let’s jump in shall we:

Lawmakers will review a loophole in Montana’s incest law that allows 16- and 17-year-olds to be held as complicit as their parents.

Well I should hope so, seeing as these particular cases involve minors.

The Montana Supreme Court suggested the examination in upholding the conviction of a man sentenced to life in prison for plying his 17-year-old daughter with methamphetamine and having sex with her in 2013.

Well then, that particular case is disgusting because somebody who is high as a kite wouldn’t have been able to consent even if she was over 18, in the same way that somebody could be too drunk to consent. This is clearly a case of RAPE, and his actions would have been illegal had they been committed against an unrelated young lady.

He sought to have his conviction overturned, saying jurors should have been cautioned about trusting her testimony because, he argued, she could have been charged as an accessory.

I’d love to know where that warped logic comes from. How could she have been charged as an accessory when she was high from the drugs he gave her? This is probably the reason why the conviction remains in place.

Montana law does not allow a person to be found guilty based solely on the testimony of someone who could be considered an accessory to the same crime, unless that testimony is corroborated. The defendant also argued the state did not have enough corroborating evidence.

Except that clearly a jury thought otherwise. The idea that corroborating evidence should be needed before a conviction of any crime is sound, because it would reduce the number of wrongful convictions. That said, the crime here should not be labelled as incest, it should be labelled as date rape of a minor, which is exactly what this disgusting spectacle was. Calling what is clearly a rape case ‘incest’ is actually insulting, degrading and offensive to all those who are in or who have been in consensual incestuous relationships.

In its ruling last week, the state Supreme Court said the daughter could not have been charged as an accessory, but as a willing participant over the state’s legal age of consent — 16 — she could have been charged with committing incest herself. Prosecutors opted not to charge her.

Huh? I thought we had already established that this was a case of the father drugging her and raping her, how could she possibly have been charged either as an accessory or a willing participant? Furthermore, even if incest was legal (as it should be), the man responsible for this would still be behind bars for committing a rape.

If she is guilty of ANYTHING it could be that she took the drugs willingly, but even that we do not know whether she did, or whether he slipped them to her. Either way, he raped her while she was high and unable to consent which is a far worse offence than taking drugs.

The court also ruled the state provided adequate other evidence, including witnesses who testified that the father had given the girl drugs, that the girl and her father shared a bed, pillow and blanket, and that the girl told other people about the sexual activity.

If it was consensual then she would have known to keep her mouth shut. Those of us who have had consensual incest do not want to be in trouble ourselves or want to get our family partners into trouble. If she was going around telling people, then that to me sounds like a cry for help.

The Associated Press is not identifying the man to avoid identifying his daughter as a victim of a sex crime.

Exactly, she’s a rape victim, that’s what I was saying all along.

It is believed to be the first time a defendant tried to use the apparent loophole in the 1983 law, his appellate attorney, Colin Stephens, said Friday.

well by all means close the loophole, but for the love of God legalize incest now and prosecute people like this bloke for the offence of RAPE. Don’t drag the word incest into it.

“Applied to consenting adults or to siblings, the statute properly treats both actors in an incestuous relationship as responsible for the offense,” Baker wrote. “And the statute rightly makes a stepson’s or stepdaughter’s consent ineffective if the child is under 18.

Well, between consenting adults (or siblings close in age) it shouldn’t be a criminal matter in the first place, it’s a waste of state resources and is in fact harmful and cruel. We need to lose the incestophobia and gain some common sense here.

“But when, as here, a father has sexual intercourse with his underage natural daughter, her consent to the act makes her his partner in crime.”

Why would the law be different for natural children than for stepchildren? That doesn’t make any sense. Also, in this case it wasn’t consensual incest, it was drugged up rape.

Democratic Rep. Jenny Eck of Helena, a member of the Legislature’s Law and Justice Interim Committee, said Friday she hadn’t heard about the apparent loophole but would raise it at the committee’s August meeting.

“I think it would be something that we could pretty easily deal with in the (2017 legislative) session,” she said. “I can’t imagine there would be anybody on the other side of this.”

The man’s appeal noted that Alabama law specifically says no one can be convicted of incest based on the uncorroborated testimony of the other person. Montana prosecutors pointed to a 2001 California Supreme Court ruling that “a child under 18 who has an incestuous sexual relationship with an adult is a victim, not a perpetrator of the incest, and this conclusion remains valid even when the child consents to the sex.”

The crime should be sexual activity with a minor, it doesn’t matter if the minor is a relative or not. It’s articles like this one that make everyone think about incest in terms of sexual abuse of minors. The particular case they were on about, in which a father drugged his daughter in order to have sex with her IS a case of sexual abuse clearly, we can all agree on that, but again, using the word ‘incest’ to describe something so horrible it is something that I find disturbing.

Courts in Idaho, Iowa and Arkansas have also ruled that incest cases require corroborating testimony, but Montana authorities noted those rulings were made in the early 1900s.

North Carolina law allows people ages 16 and older to be held criminally responsible for their involvement in an incestuous relationship.

if they’re both above the age of consent in their state, and they are both consenting then it shouldn’t even be a criminal matter. But again, this in particular case that sparked off the discussion the man would have been charged with rape, plain and simple.

Nonetheless, the Montana Legislature, “either intentionally or unintentionally, has left an ambiguity in the law in the rare circumstance involving incest and ‘victims’ over the age of consent,” wrote Stephens, the father’s appellate attorney.

“The Legislature may wish to take a fresh look at the incest statute to address this paradoxical result,” Justice Baker wrote.

Your putting the word victims in markers means that you recognise that sometimes incest is consensual. If you’re persecuting consenting adults then that is immoral and has to stop… and one day it will, our movement will see to that. You cannot oppress us forever, because we do not accept our oppression as valid.

If somebody is raping a family member, then call it what it is, rape, please don’t call it incest. It creates a confusion in the public mind where they confuse people like us who have had wonderful and fulfilling loving relationships with our relatives, with monsters like this guy who drugged and raped his daughter. There is no comparison or similarity between the two. Rape is rape, and consensual sex is consensual sex. We agree that rapists belong in jail, but leave consenting adults alone.

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Now we need the cousins on board, oh, and Non-GSA people should be more active in our community and liberation too!

For the last few years we’ve had a unity between the GSA and Non-GSA parts of the community, this has been extremely important progress for us as a community and we are always going to be stronger in this unified position. That said, there is one more group of people we need to help bring onboard, and that is cousin couples.

The cousins themselves oftentimes do not wish to associate themselves with ‘incest people’, and yet they often face the same persecution in some parts of the world as we do. Around half of the US states ban cousin marriage and some even prosecute cousin couples under the incest laws… and the other half of the US states will marry first cousins. Doesn’t that just go to show how arbitrary it all is, that they could go to jail in one state and become a married couple in another.

So in some places, cousins is legally defined as incest, and in other places it’s not. I would like to let any cousins reading my blog know that they’re welcome in our community, and that if you’re suffering persecution, your battle is also our battle, against ignorance and fear.

If people sit down and think about it rationally, if two people who are first cousins who grew up together and attended the same school and stuff end up in a relationship, how exactly is that different from two people who are siblings doing the same? It isn’t. These cousins would be firmly in the non-GSA category, and then there are cousins who barely knew each other until adulthood, who would be considered GSA cousins.

So I would like to appeal to cousins in this posting to come forward and become a part of our community, because the prejudice against you is the same as you suffer, except we get it nearly everywhere. We understand your struggles and challenges because we share them.

It’s also been my observation that most of the activity within the community has come from people who are in GSA relationships. Now, I know you’re out there non-GSA people, but where are you? I’m one of you, and just look at everything I’ve accomplished in just six months. You might well be scared of going online and seeking others, you might be struggling with this aspect of your identity…. please, you do not have to be alone with this any more our community is there for you. You’re not bad or broken, you’re just a bit different and I’ve been there feeling uncertain and feeling like a freak. If you come to us and be a part of our community you will learn how normal you are, and you can accept yourself at last just as I did. Nobody here is going to judge.

We need ALL parts of the community to work together harmoniously and to participate in our liberation by fighting to rid the world of this outrageous legislation against our love. Whoever you are, and wherever you are, even if you cannot do any of the online activism stuff, you can still sign up for Kindred Spirits or the I Support Full Marriage Equality facebook group and become a part of our growing community. In this hostile world we need each others support.

Some updates and reminders

I’ve updated my podcast, so episodes 64-73 are now available for listening and download. Sorry about the delay in that guys I’ve been distracted with other projects, but now my last ten essays are now available to listen to for those who do not have hours to spend at their computer.

Also, and I know it’s probably old news by now but I’ll say it again because it is urgent and important, Monica and Caleb need your assistance. If you can afford to and haven’t already done so, donate to their legal fees fund and/or send the letters I wrote. This couple will be very much grateful for any help you’re able to give.

Also, I will remind all readers of this blog that they should be signing this petition, to amend the law in Scotland to legalize incest for all over 21s. Every signature adds weight to the document.

Remember also that the forum Kindred Spirits is available for anyone who wishes to communicate with us privately, some forums are only available to introduced users, and so it is a safe and secure way to get in touch.

Lastly, thanks to all of you for following my blog 🙂

Telling people that they can’t consent is insulting

I thought I’d address this because it crops up pretty often when stories are run by the mainstream media, and sometimes in the online replies to such stories. There seems to be a general impression that people aren’t able to consent to sexual relationships with family members, especially their parents. It’s time I gave some proper perspective here.

At the age of eighteen, a person is allowed to legally consent to all of the following:

  1. To join the armed forces and fight (and possibly die) for their country.
  2. Buy and consume alcoholic beverages.
  3. Buy and use tobacco.
  4. Be judged as an adult if suspected of a serious crime.
  5. Enter into legally binding contracts, including marriage.
  6. Have sexual intercourse.
  7. Star in a porn movie.

In fact, he or she is permitted by law to consent to an orgy with ten people they just met at a sex party if that’s what they want to do. So how can it be that they are suddenly unable to consent to sex with their relatives? Doesn’t compute does it.

As a matter of fact, the idea that anyone would be unable to consent to sex with a relative but perfectly able to consent to the above list is deeply insulting. It is bringing a persons ability to make their own choices in life into question. In effect is infantilizes the person and makes the outrageous assumption that society’s arbitrary rules and regulations are a one size fits all umbrella of behavioural norms. Those who live outside of those norms are treated as heretics, for these norms are enshrined not just by social custom, but by legislation.

In effect, the underlying assumption that there is no such thing as consensual incest is ridiculous at best. Actually it’s like saying that sex = rape, when that’s very clearly not the case at all… it really is THAT STUPID. One would have thought that this would be obvious, but apparently not to a large number of people.

For the most part this is levied against intergenerational consanguinamoruous couples, where there is a perceived power imbalance; but if somebody can consent to sex with any other person many years their senior, or with a person who is vastly more wealthy, or with their boss…. then why not their parent? In fact the power differential between parent and adult offspring is SMALLER than with the latter two examples. So I ask again, why, if I am allowed to have sex with my boss if I choose to, am I not allowed to have sex with my father? Makes no sense does it?

Oh, I hear you say, but you could be manipulated or brainwashed into liking it. REALLY? For serious? Let me put this into perspective using my real life experience. I’ve had ONE consanguinamoruous relationship with was loving and perfect, and I’ve had many regular relationships ranging from good to terrible. There has only been ONE relationship in which I was manipulated and abused, and that was with a regular. Having experienced both healthy and unhealthy I know the difference. My consanguinamorous relationship with my dad was very healthy and loving.

My point is that consanguinamorous relationships are not unhealthy or manipulative or abusive JUST BECAUSE THE PARTNER IS RELATED TO YOU. They may be healthy or unhealthy depending on the persons involved. Obviously I would advise anyone in an unhealthy relationship to get out of it, whether their other half is related or not. But ultimately, both consanguinamorous and regular relationships may be healthy or unhealthy depending on the people, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are related, and everything to do with the personality of the two people. Some people are just toxic, and that applies whether they date a relative or an unrelated person. I would advise anyone NOT to date anyone they know to be toxic, whether related or not.

The other main tactic to try to deny the existence of consensual incest is to compare it to child rape. Now, children are below the age of consent for a start. They are both psychologically and physiologically not ready for sexual relations. Children do NOT have sexual feelings as adults understand them. They may be curious about gender differences and they may be curious about how babies are made… but that is in no way an indicator as to their readiness for adult relationships. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a prude and I do believe that children should get an age-appropriate honest answer when they ask anything about sexuality and reproduction (‘daddy gave mummy a special seed to grow into a baby’ is all that a small child needs to hear if they ask how the baby got there if you’re pregnant). That said I do NOT believe that children must know all the details, at least not in their formative years. Older children will learn about sex in sex education classes anyway, so the exact mechanics need not be taught anyway by parents, but the parent must be willing to answer questions that their children have honestly and frankly if they have a question. Hiding sexual information from kids can do more harm than good, it’s better that they get the right answers from you than the wrong ones from their mates at school. These innocent questions should always be treated as such, and honest answers should always be provided by caring and responsible adults, parents particularly.

That said, when those children are autonomous adults in their own right, fully formed and ready to take on the world, if they choose a parent as their partner, then how the hell is that bad or wrong? Of course adults can manipulate other adults, but how likely is that for a parent to manipulate the person they have raised to be an independent adult? The chances are pretty slim. I fell for my dad for the person he was, his sense of humour, his laid back and chilled out personality, the fact I could talk to him about ANYTHING and he would ALWAYS be there for me, we had so much in common on every conceivable level, we wanted the same things out of life… everything about him was perfection to me. We connected on so many levels it was indescribable, and for somebody to tell me I was not able to consent simply because his is my parent… it’s beyond an insult… it’s just vile and disgusting that anyone would think I wasn’t’ consenting.

IN CONCLUSION, I will say that comparing consenting adult incest with child rape is both outrageous and disgusting, and that anybody making that outrageous comparison should be willing to debate with me on the issue. If you’re one of those people reading, I’m ready for you, bring it on. If you’re a consanguinamorous parent who is involved with their adult-child, please don’t be discouraged, not everyone is against you, and certainly not our community.If  you’re a consanguinamorous offspring reading this, you’ll need to give extra love and support to your parent/partner. These relationships are so difficult, but only because the world has made them that way, so don’t let the haters win!

What to do if you have consanguinamorous children

This is a difficult subject to talk about for many people, and yet it is one that needs to be covered because there is realistic possibility that ones children may express some interest in consanguinamory at some point, especially if one is consanguinamorous oneself. I say that because there is a small possibility that there may be a genetic component to our sexuality, I can’t say that there definitely is because I honestly do not know at this point, none of us do for sure until more research is done. There is also a chance that you’re a regular reading this article and have discovered consanguinamory amongst your children. Whatever your circumstances, this article is for you as a parent.

If your children are all above the age of consent, and you discover consanguinamory amongst them, then I would advise you to leave well alone. Obviously you can give advice such as cautioning them to be discreet, or about contraception if they are not ready for children because they are studying or anything of that nature. What you should never do is shun them or try to force them apart, it’s both cruel and unnecessary. Take a good look around my blog and see for yourself what consanguinamory is really all about so that you become familiar with the kind of challenges your children are likely to face as consanguinamorous people. If you’re consang yourself I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but it does need to be said.

If you have underage adolescents who are expressing some interest in consanguinamory, that’s where it gets a little different. Of course, as a parent it is important that you discourage any underage sex, the age of consent is there for very good reasons, it both protects youngsters from the predation of adults, and from making poor decisions in life that they may later regret. This age varies a little from country to country, but by and large it serves the purposes for what it is intended for. The level of contact that would be appropriate for regular couples of their age group should also be okay for consang youngsters. For instance, if you would not stop your 15 year old daughter from going on a date with a lad from school, then there is no reason to stop her from going on a date with her sixteen year old brother, provided of course that they are discreet. Actually in this scenario you as a parent have the distinct advantage compared with if she were a regular, you already know both parties in the relationship and you do not need to suss out a whole new person. Who is more likely to treat your daughter with respect, the lad at school, or the brother she grew up with?

At this point, as a parent, you need to be prepared for anything. This might turn out to be a short term interest and then they go back to being brother and sister, or it might end up being a lifelong partnership. Whether it is a phase or not is not something you will be able to tell from the outset, only time will give you that answer. It is important that whatever their decision, you support them and love them all the same. Whatever you do, don’t tell them that it’s sick or disgusting, or force them into therapy, or get the cops involved, if you do you will do untold damage to your family unit and to your children. If you’re regular, you might be a bit grossed our by it, but those are YOUR preferences, not your children’s. Treat this situation as you would had your children have been LGBT, give them the same love and acceptance. If you’re a consang parent, you’ll instinctively know all this already, and you’ll be well prepared to brief your kids in protecting themselves and you’ll naturally be on hand for advice.

Of course, there are some more things that need to be said, if one of the children is over the age of consent and one us underage, there should be no sex involved until the younger one is of age. If this has already occurred, you need to sit down and talk to them and ensure it won’t happen again until the younger is old enough. This of course, assumes that the age gap is very small, like a year or two. Obviously it is completely different if an 18 year old sleeps with a 17 year old than if that 18 year old was to force him or herself on a far younger sibling who may only be 11 or 12. One is underage sex between similarly aged peers, the other is child rape, there is a massive difference and it needs to be treated very differently. The former needs a good talking to about the age of consent and why it’s there, the latter needs police involvement.

It’s entirely possible that your consang children may express an interest in you. If they’re of age and you’re both available and interested then there is no good reason not to pursue a relationship. If you’re not available then explain that you’re unwilling to cheat on your current partner and that’s that. If you’re a regular then just let them know that you’re not into this kind of thing and let them down gently, as you would any other person who you aren’t interested in dating.

If your child is interested in you and they are underage, then obviously it would be wrong to pursue a relationship with them… so don’t do it. If you may be interested in the future then tell him or her to come back when he or she is of age… by then they may have lost interest if it was a phase, if not then the possibility is that it will crop up again and you’ll have to have a ready answer for them, yes or no.

The goal of parenting is to reach the stage where the now adult-child is ready and able to take the world on for themselves, to provide for themselves and become self-sufficient. If this target has been reached THAT would be the ideal time for a relationship to start, not before.

As a final note, I did write an article a while back especially for teenagers who suspect that they might be consanguinamorous. Please, let them read this.

An astounding level of ignorance on daytime TV

Okay guys, today I have a short excerpt from a daytime TV show in the United States, where the couple Kim West and Ben Ford are mentioned:

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/video/tech/incest-or-psychological-condition/vi-BBumivl

For the purposes of this analysis, my words are in BLUE.

It opens with a man saying that the story gives him ‘the creeps‘ and that their relationship took a ‘disturbing turn when they found themselves sexually attracted to each other‘.

If it gives you the creeps or you find it disturbing, that’s fine, don’t have a GSA relationship then. 

It goes downhill from here, with the question being asked ‘is this a pschological condition, or incest?

Neither GSA nor incest are psychological conditions, they are both valid relationship options.

A therapist is in the audience, who states that it is ‘not common‘ and that ‘most people who have a feeling like that would be ashamed and embarrassed and uncomfortable

Not very well educated in this subject are you, up to 50% of reunited relatives experience Genetic sexual attraction. Shame is the by-product of societal conditioning. If people knew more about GSA and incest, there wouldn’t be any reason for the shame people feel.

A few sentences later, a lady in the panel asks ‘from a societal point of view, you mean to tell me that there isn’t one other person you can be attracted to that you don’t share half the same chromosomal DNA with. I find that really difficult to wrap my head around

Most people involved in GSA and incest CAN feel attracted to others, but it just isn’t the same. Those of us who have experienced both realize that there is a deep double-love bond that goes much further than mere physical attraction, a bond that simply CANNOT be found with an unrelated person. I can look at many random guys and find some of them attractive, but that isn’t the same as having a deep loving bond which encompasses family love an romantic love, and surpassing them both. Asking us to forego our love and find an alternative is just plain cruel.

To which the psychotherapist replies ‘I think they get mixed up, with the ‘I longed to know you, I feel a connection with you, and it sort of gets turned into ‘I think we have chemistry’ instead of just that connection

No, there isn’t any mix-up here from what I can see. They are perfectly aware that they are mother and son. Role confusion is a very common misunderstanding here, because there is no confusion. They are mother and son, and they are lovers, these two roles blend into each other and become something more when combined. 

A man in the panel adds ‘Look, in current society, it’s talked about more, but there are a lot of inappropriate sexual relationships that occur, you know, with an adult or a child. And in many ways, even though the son is now a grown up… I would almost put it in that…I would say that this is ultimately the responsibility of the mother to say ‘look, you’re my son’. I mean, she’s still his mother, to say ‘You’re my son, we can’t so this

You were about to compare it to pedophilia, but stopped yourself in time, perhaps realizing exactly how stupid that sounded. She is his mother, but as equal adults, they have the capacity to enter into a relationship of their own accord, and if both are consenting there is NO GOOD REASON why they should not be free to have a relationship.

The psychotherapist says ‘something’s not right with her for sure’

Why not? She’s in love with a guy who happens to be her son. Shouldn’t even be an issue. 

It annoys me when I see things like this, bigotry and ignorance in action. I almost wanted to reach into the screen and whack them with a clue bat, might have knocked some sense into them.

Three phases to full equality

At this very early stage of the consanguinamory rights movement, the focus is going to be on the decriminalization of incest and our very strong arguments for that. It will likely be that way for a number of years due to the amount of ignorance and prejudice that must first be overcome. That said, even when decriminalization has been realized and we no longer have to hide from the law, there will still be much work left to do. What I am going to talk about in this article, is the long term goals of our movement, and what it will mean for us as a community.

Phase one: Decriminalization

This is the first goal that we must work towards on our path to full equality. Currently, people are being put on trial and imprisoned in a large number of countries all because of who they love. This is an injustice, it is inhumane, it is wrong, and it must stop. Society gains absolutely nothing by treating us in this degrading manner, and far from negating the harm it believes to be there (which doesn’t exist when we’re talking about incest between consenting adults), the actions of the state are causing a great deal of harm to the couples themselves, and their families. Prejudice harms, always.

Nobody likes to live in fear that the police are going to come and that the law is going to wreck ones life for absolutely no good reason. Our community is quite fed up with being treated in such a manner and now we’re doing something about it.

The goal of decriminalization will be reached with enough people getting involved in the activism, and doing the following kinds of activities:

  1. Setting up websites and showing the world what consensual incest and GSA is really all about. Basically getting the facts out there and explaining how and why our relationships are just as valid as anyone else’s.
  2. Getting the word out there on widely used platforms such as youtube.
  3. Speaking to journalists on an anonymous basis.
  4. Publicizing appeals for people who are in legal trouble
  5. Tackling bigots with a hefty dose of common sense.
  6. Writing and sending letters to prominent politicians.
  7. Working and networking with existing activists.
  8. Finding lawyers willing to represent consanguinamorous couples.
  9. Working and networking with human rights advocate groups and seeing which ones may support our cause.

Could YOU be one to help our cause with any of these activities?

Phase two: Removing discrimination

Once incest becomes legal, there will still be a lot of work to be done. There will still be a lot of people opposed to it and people will still be discriminated against in other ways. Here are a few examples of what we’re likely to face:

  1. Bullying and harassment at work, even being fired
  2. Some lines of employment may not be open to you as an openly consang person
  3. Hate mail and/or cyber bullying.
  4. Being assaulted because of your sexuality
  5. Friends and family shunning you if you come out
  6. People trying to wreck your relationship

It will be tough, but know that this is nothing that LGBT people did not encounter when their sexuality was decriminalized. We can and we will get through this in the following ways:

  1.  Let people get to know us as regular people, so we become PEOPLE to them, not ‘that weird incest couple over there’.
  2. Appeal to politicians to extend the law against discrimination to include our protection too.
  3. Show bigots up for what they are, give them enough rope and let them hang themselves on the stupidity and ignorance of their own words.
  4. EDUCATE THE PUBLIC: This includes doing seminars, organizing mass meets, pride marches… etc
  5. Setting up a consanguinamory centre in every city to give advice and support to local couples who might be struggling with these issues.

Phase Three: Full Equality and marriage rights

Once most of the opposition and prejudice has been tackled by educating the public, we will be in a much stronger position to demand full equality and all the rights that come with that. Our wish list is the following:

  1. The right to enter into a legally binding marriage with the exact same rights as regular and gay marriages. This is very important because of inheritance laws and it meaning state recognition of the validity of our relationships.
  2. Assaults and bulling against us for our sexuality should be covered by hate crime laws in exactly the same way as homophobic or racist attacks are currently viewed.
  3. Equal employment rights, preventing companies from dismissing us or refusing to hire us solely because of our sexuality
  4. Genetic counselling to be made available to all consanguinamorous couples who are considering the possibility of having genetic children.
  5. Other options such as adoption being made available to consanguinamorous couples who cannot, or do not wish to have genetic children

These final goals will be achieved by continuing to bring these issues into the public sphere and working to get politicians to talk about it and thus take the actions that we require from them.

My thoughts

We should not and cannot rest until the third goal has been achieved. We are one people spread over the globe, united by the challenges we face. We cannot sit back and be the victims of discrimination forever, I for one am not going to allow that to happen. We can either cower in a corner terrified of the law, or we can stand united and show the world who we truly are and demand our rights. Yes, we must protect ourselves online and off for now… but we should not hide forever. Once we have secured decriminalization, we can and we should them become more bold in our quest for the full equality we deserve.

In such a world of full equality, nobody will have to feel ashamed of who they are or fear being ‘outed’. People could marry who they love and not be discriminated against in the workplace. Hate crimes against us would be taken seriously by the police service, and children born of consanguine couples would no longer have to face the horrendous stigma that they currently do.

Would YOU like to live in that world? I do, and that is why I am determined to help make that happen for everyone. If you feel as I do, then it is your duty to help your people in whatever capacity you are able to do so. I appeal to you as a fellow human being to get involved and help this movement. One thing is for sure, bad things will continue to happen to our people if good people continue to sit back and do nothing.

A fundraiser for Monica and Caleb

 

Ladies and gentlemen, here is another opportunity for you to make a real difference in the lives of Monica Mares and Caleb Petersen, the mother/son GSA couple who are being outrageously prosecuted for their relationship. A fundraiser has been started with the view to raising $25k in order to pay for their legal fees. I’ve also added this link to this page  which outlines what else you could do to help. You may contribute as much or as little as you can afford to, and it doesn’t matter even if it’s only a dollar, every little bit helps. If you want to contribute any money towards this cause please

CLICK HERE

New Jersey considers taking a step back in the wrong direction

Well folks, it seems that New Jersey has only just realized that anti-incest laws haven’t been on the books since 1979, and they are contemplating adding them again, as this article explains:

Assemblywoman Mary Pat Angelini on Wednesday said she’ll introduce legislation that bans adult incest in New Jersey — a response to a flurry of media reports in the last week that noted sexual relationships between consenting, closely related adults is legal here.

Oh the horror, that incestuous couples might actually have some safe refuges where they’re free from state persecution… how very terrible! [/sarcasm]

“Obviously, these types of relationships violate our acceptable moral standards and should be banned,” Angelini (R-Monmouth) said in a news release.

Well, discriminating against consenting adults should be considered a violation of acceptable moral standards. Would you mind explaining how two consenting adults who happen to be closely related are immoral? They aren’t, get over yourself and stop talking crap.

Her announcement comes a day after Assembly Republican Leader Jon Bramnick told NJ Advance Media he expected the legislature to take up the issue quickly.

“I’m convinced there’s going to be some discussion,” Bramnick said. “Any time you learn a father and daughter plan to get married, that has to be unacceptable. It would appear to be against anything that’s acceptable in New Jersey.”

Why must it be unacceptable? Just because other people don’t like it? That is NOT a sufficient reason to consider making something a criminal offence. Very simple, if you don’t like incest, then don’t have an incestuous relationship. You don’t however have the right to stop others from having that type of relationship if they want to, it would not effect you in any way.

Tom Hester, a spokesman for Assembly Democrats, said Wednesday Democrats are working on similar legislation.

“Prohibiting this is certainly something everyone agrees upon,” Hester said in an emial to NJ Advance Media. That includes Assembly Speaker Vincent Prieto, Hester said.

Everyone might agree on it, but it doesn’t make it right. Remember, it was once the general consensus that the Earth was flat. A wrong belief is still wrong even when it is held by the vast majority. Bigotry is still bigotry no matter how many adhere to it.

“Incestuous relationships create many ethical questions and are often times sexually abusive relationships blurred by the ‘consensual’ loophole,” Angelini said.

Consensual sex is NOT a loophole, it exists. Abuse is abuse whether the perpetrator and the victim are related or not, and consensual is consensual whether the people are related or not. It’s incredibly easy to criminalize abuse whilst protecting consenting adults. There is nothing unethical about two related consenting adults pursuing a relationship.

Her bill would make it illegal to marry or commit an act of sexual penetration with a blood relative including a parent or child, brother or sister (including half-siblings), uncle or aunt, or nephew or niece. The third-degree crime would carry a prison term of three to five years, and a fine of up to $15,000, or both.

So, all those incest couples who have contributed to your local economy and just gone about their normal lives now suddenly deserve to be imprisoned and fined because you hate their relationships? Bigot.

Your law enforcement has better things to do with it’s time, like tracking down REAL criminals, you know, the ones who have VICTIMS.

Media attention to the issue began after New York magazine ran article about an unnamed 18-year-old who said she plans to move to New Jersey and live as a married couple with her once-estranged father. They reportedly don’t plan to make the marriage legally binding, as it would still be considered void in New Jersey.

For God’s sake, leave them alone, they aren’t hurting anybody and are clearly in love. Banning such relationships causes nothing but heartbreak.

Sexual relationships among adult relatives weren’t always legal in New Jersey. Incest was outlawed in New Jersey until 1979, when the state enacted a new criminal code that left a section planned for incest blank, according to Peter Gilbreth, a Morristown-based attorney who handles both criminal and family cases.

So it was an oversight. Doesn’t mean that it’s right to fill in that blank, consider the human rights of the people you would be unfairly criminalizing.

Under the old statute, incest was a crime that carried a maximum penalty of 15 years in state prison, Gilbreth said.

It’s still illegal in New Jersey for an adult to have sex with a closely related 16-year-old or 17-year-old, even though 16 is the age of consent in New Jersey — except in situations where the older person has some supervisory role over the younger one.

I for one am very glad that the old statute is gone, that was quite ridiculous. As for the laws regarding age, those are quite reasonable to expect both parties to be over 18 if they’re related.

Almost all other states bar incest in some form, though the particulars of which sexual relationships are barred vary from state to state. In most states, sexual relations between a parent and child, regardless of age, would be illegal. Rhode Island decriminalized incestuous relationships in 1989, though like in New Jersey, marriages are void.

Just because everyone else is doing something doesn’t mean you must follow suit. If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you join the queue to do the same? I doubt it.

Incest isn’t the only sexual taboo to come before the legislature recently. Last year, the state Assembly voted 76-0 to explicitly ban bestiality in New Jersey. A companion bill was referred to the state Senate’s judiciary committee but has not come up for a vote.

While this last bit is clearly off-topic I think I’ll address it anyway. Bestiality involves the rape of a defenceless animal that is unable to consent, so of course it should be illegal. In fact, why was this even included in this article? Oh, silly me, I forgot…. to artificially compare incest with bestiality. Nice try but EPIC FAIL, I SPOTTED IT.  Animals cannot consent to sex with human beings, other human beings, even related ones, can.