Share your story

Today I would like to invite my readers to share their life stories with me, anonymously of course, your identity will be protected and I will not save or pass on any e-mail addresses. Since this website is for the consanguinamorous community, it is only fitting that  give people a platform on which to speak out should they want to do so. By partaking, you will be getting your story out there for others to read, helping those who might be feeling very alone to realize that they are neither alone nor perverted.

While I do not do structured interviews in the same way that Full Marriage Equality does, I will give a few basic questions here for respondents to include the answers to in their response. Otherwise it’s all in your own words. The only editing I do is correcting any spelling and grammar mistakes. If you want to respond as a couple, you may do so, for the sake of clarity, I will make his words blue and her words pink. That way it will be easier for readers to identify who is saying what.

You may answer the questions directly, or write your story as an article which doesn’t have a structured form, whichever makes you feel more comfortable. All responses will be posted onto my blog, and archived in the ‘readers stories’ part of my website.

The Questions:

  • Describe what kind of consanguinamorous relationship you’re in, or have been in? (for example, is it a closed or open relationship, which family member are you involved with, is it a heterosexual or homosexual relationship…etc?)
  • Describe yourself, approximate age, what kind of person are you? What are your interests and hobbies?
  • How did it start, and what were your thoughts and feelings at the time?
  • How long have you been together, and what are your plans for the future?
  • Is your relationship legal where you are?
  • If you could legally marry, would you?
  • What would you like to say to others who disapprove of your relationship, or who want people like yourself to be thrown in jail?
  • Describe the advantages and disadvantages of consanguinamorous relationships in your experience.
  • How do you feel about your relationship now?
  • Before you had this relationship, what were your thoughts and feelings about others who engaged in this type of relationship?
  • What are your thoughts and feelings about consanguinamory in general now?
  • What is it like, having to hide the truth from the world, and having to lie to people?
  • What would you like say to anyone who discovers a friend or relative in a consanguinamorous relationship?
  • Is there anything else you want to add?

All responses should be sent to, janedoeofks@protonmail.com NOT put as a reply to this post. Thank you in advance for responding 🙂

NO sexually explicit responses please.

When it starts: Overwhelming love and Inner Conflict

This article is about the most common feelings that people have when they start consanguinamorous relationships. It is aimed to help outsiders understand us better, and to help people who have just found themselves in a new relationship of this nature. Hopefully it will also help those people who are a bit further down the road, but still struggling with feelings of guilt and self-hate.

Just like in any other type of relationship, falling in love is a very special experience. Suddenly you see this other person in a whole new light, the lights go on in your brain and you get the butterflies and that warm fuzzy feeling when the other person is around. You want to be in their presence as often as possible, you crave physical contact with him or her, and just hearing their voice brightens your day. A lot of very positive things are said about falling in love, and for good reason, it feels good and it is the initial stages of bonding for a couple (or polycule). What happens when these positive, wonderful and special emotions are felt towards a family member?

At the first phase of attraction, in most types of relationships people just tend to go for it and ask the other person out, this is certainly true of the widely accepted forms of sexuality, namely the straight and gay communities. It is a bit different for consanguinamorous people for a few reasons. Firstly, incest is so taboo that asking the other person if they’re interested is in itself a monumentally courageous thing to do. Secondly, when society has told you all your life that these feelings are bad, wrong, sick and disgusting, it is impossible not to internalize at least some of that and begin to feel bad about yourself for even having these feelings in the first place. Thirdly, the function of ‘dating’ in the normal sense of the word means to get to know the other person, this aspect applies to GSA consanguinamory where the participants have to get to know each other, but far less so with conventional incest where the participants know each other extremely well to begin with. In cases where consanguinamory is in it’s non-GSA form, the relationships is at the outset an extension of the existing family bond. In all kinds of consanguinamory, there are going to be a mixed bag of feelings when it comes to entering into these relationships.

I remember what it felt like myself, when I was first thinking about my dad in this way. My lines of thinking and internal dialog was something like ‘He’s just so wonderful, I want to be with him all the time, I can’t get him out of my head…. stop thinking like that, that’s disgusting and sick…. but he might feel the same way…. that’s fucked up…. it feels so right…. but it’s so wrong, it’s incest…. should it matter that he’s related? I love him anyway…. this is just perverted…. but it doesn’t feel perverted’ …etc. Sound familiar? The wonderful feelings of being in love, then the self-hate. If you’re going through this right now, there are ways to live without shame. You are certainly not alone and you can get connected to realize just how normal you really are. It certainly goes a long way towards understanding your sexuality and embracing it. It’s not wrong to feel this way, you’re just a bit different from the expected norm of society. It took me a while to understand myself and how normal I was… sadly my dad never got to accept himself in this way and he broke it off with me a few years ago because of this and fear of being discovered.

When you’ve calmed the inner turmoil by realizing and fully understanding that what society has to say about incest is both prejudiced and deeply ignorant, you will understand that there is nothing wrong with you and that you and your family lover have every right to a consanguinamorous relationship if you choose to. You’re doing nothing wrong, you’re harming nobody… and yet it is society that does the harming with it’s ridiculous laws.

Whatever your circumstances, proceed with caution, but should you both feel the same please try to eliminate the self-hate. You’re beautiful just as you are and you shouldn’t try to change for anyone. Love is love, and our form of love is the most special, deep and precious gift ever, it’s a blessing, not a curse.

Consanguinamory and Christianity

Many people who object to relationships between close relatives will say that it is against God, or against their religion. Yet religious ideologies themselves vary greatly, and certainly in the past, there was a greater tolerance for incest relationships. While the Bible condemns it in Leviticus, there is at least one example of it in genesis, because Abraham and his wife were siblings. This fact is lost on many Christians who preach hellfire and damnation to anyone who ‘sins’ in this way. There is a huge contradiction there, because if incest was really such a huge sin, then why would God choose a guy in an incest relationship to be the founder of a major world religion?

Logically, this must not have been such a huge deal from Gods point of view. but how can that be when incest is clearly against the word of the Bible? quite simple really… the Bible is the word of man but parts of it were inspired by God, you know, the ‘love thy neighbor’ parts. It is of interest to note that Jesus, the living representative of God on earth didn’t have a single word to say on the subject, or about homosexuality for that matter. If gay and incest bashing was part of Gods plan, you’d think he might have mentioned it. Instead, what we do get is a general message of love for all human beings. Why? Because God doesn’t hate people, people hate people. I really do despair at some people sometimes, because they use God to justify the ungodly bigoted views they hold. We were all created in the image of God, yes, consanguinamarous people too! Thus it is not at all problematic to reconcile our sexuality with the Christian faith.

It brings to mind the following verses of the bible that seem relevant when dealing with hypocrites who believe that they’re better than everyone else:

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. – Matthew 7:3-5

In other words, if you’re not perfect yourself, you have no business condemning others because you can’t see clearly yourself, the one you condemn may just see clearer than you do. Good advice if you ask me.

Above all, this one:

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. – 1 John 4:8

Which means that all this hate poured out at incest couples (or anyone else for that matter) is profoundly anti-Christian in nature. If you’re consanguinamorous and Christian, you can take comfort in this. Also, anyone perpetrating such hate should be ashamed of themselves.

A bigoted article complete with the slippery slope fallacy and added homophobia

Here you will find an article in which the author expresses his concerns about the future legalization of incest, and his objection to its inclusion in works of fiction… and the very thinly veiled homophobia.

Of course, it would have seemed even more farfetched 20 years ago to suggest that the Faroe Islands would one day be debating whether a man could “marry” a man, but that didn’t stop some critics there from mocking my reference to adult incest, as if to say, “There you go again with your slippery slope argument!”

The reality is that we have been careening down that slippery slope for years now.

Oh my God, to think of the fact that people he disapproves of should actually have RIGHTS and be treated as actual human beings, how very terrible. What an awful world it would be to live in a place where people respected each others differences . Note also that the word ‘marry’ is in speech marks… apparently he doesn’t feel that gay marriage is a valid marriage. In my opinion, if two (or more) people make a legal civil commitment to each other, then the state should recognize it as a marriage. These rights should be immediately extended to any and all consenting adults.

This brings me to my next point, the stupidity of the slippery slope fallacy, which assumes that taking one action will cause things to necessarily descend into anarchy and immorality of the worst possible kind. The author seems to believe that incest will become legal based on the fact that gay marriage is legal… while that is not necessarily true, even if it was why according to him would the legalization of incest be a bad thing? He doesn’t even say why incest is apparently part of the ‘anarchy’, he just states that it is. Making such statements does not make them true no matter how often they are repeated.

Look at this part:

Does anyone really think that some viewers repeatedly exposed to scenes featuring consensual adult incest, some of them portrayed quite positively in various movies and TV shows, will not have their natural repulsion to this diminished?

That’s a bad thing WHY? Just because it loses it’s shock value doesn’t mean that everyone is going to go out and start having sex with their relatives. Most people will retain their repulsion at the idea of doing it themselves because of the westermarck effect, but they SHOULD lose their repulsion at other people doing it. The author clearly thinks that watching something be done = being prepared to do it yourself… that’s a stupid line of reasoning and any sensible person could see it.

Of course, in the vast majority of cases, this is a matter of heterosexual incest, not homosexual incest, and I am not blaming this slide into sexual anarchy on homosexuality.

I am simply stating that our embrace of homosexuality is part of our larger descent into sexual anarchy, a position I documented carefully in “Outlasting the Gay Revolution.”

Why is incest being described as ‘sexual anarchy’? Last time I checked, incest relationships are very much similar to their non-incest counterparts. Can’t see any anarchy there. Again, it is not explained.

Note his wording… he isn’t blaming homosexuality for this ‘descent’, only public acceptance of it. Seriously? WHAT? There is the thinly disguised homophobia again. Jesus, what a backward and bigoted view.

When I participated in the online debate for DebateOut.com, I repeated one of my favorite lines from G.K. Chesterton, namely, “Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.” (Strikingly, during the online debate, I was the only one to raise the issue of societal fences and their purposes.)

Yet again, he fails to say WHY those fences ought to be there. Let’s see… Because tearing them down makes some people uncomfortable? Because it gives people the right to be bigots if they remain there? Because people like this guy can’t see that some fences are put up purely because of ignorance and prejudice? This fence ought to have been torn down ages ago.

We had best leave these fences in place for the good of society.

Oh yes, let’s leave up the fences and deny people their rights because of ignorance and prejudice, that’s really going to make the world a better place [/sarcasm].

In fact, it would be best to put some of the old fences back up, the sooner the better.

What? Like going back to the bad old days of gay bashing?

My God, it’s hard to believe anyone could write an article that disguises it’s authors prejudices so poorly. It’s even more disturbing to think that many of his readers are quite likely to take him seriously because he is reconfirming their own prejudices. In short, this guy is a freedom hating bigot and a homophobe to boot. Never mind, at least I had fun debunking his ridiculous non-arguments for what they are, prejudiced.

Power differentials and intergenerational consanguinamory

This issue is raised most often with regards to parent/offspring consanguinamory, but to a lesser extent to uncle/niece and aunt/nephew situations also. The view of society is that because there is a perceived power imbalance between the two parties, then the relationship cannot be healthy and the younger/less powerful one either can’t give meaningful consent or is somehow going to be abused. This article exists to debunk this persistent ignorance-based myth.

Firstly, there are many other types of relationship which are perfectly legal in which there is a power differential between the participants. For instance, a company owner or manager who has an affair with an employee. It might be against company policy but it’s certainly not a legal matter unless abuse of some kind does actually occur (it’s abuse in this case that is illegal, not the relationship). We also do not ban relationships and marriage between a wealthy person and a poor person purely on the basis that the rich partner has more money and therefore more power. Again, it is possible that abuse may occur, but that doesn’t mean that it will. There are many instances of such marriages and if the participants are in a happy and loving relationship, why not? Good for them.

Sometimes people have a problem with age gap relationships in a more general way, I’ve heard some people claim that it’s ‘not normal’… huh? Why? If two people are in love and want to be together and they’re not hurting others or themselves then where exactly is the problem? There isn’t one! The only ‘problem’ is misunderstanding and ignorance. I once heard a completely outrageous argument that a 20 year old with a 45 year old ‘bordered on pedophilia’… WTF? Last time I checked, 20 is well above the age of consent and most young people of that age group know exactly what they’re doing and who they want to have sexual relations with. To say otherwise is an insult to their intelligence and personal autonomy as a human being. Also, pedophilia is a completely unrelated subject in which adults prey upon underage children. Pedophilia is by very definition abusive because the younger party is too young to consent, age-gap love is like any other love, between two consenting adults.

Now that I’ve inserted some logic here, let’s apply it to intergenerational consanguinamory. The argument goes that the parent has too much influence over the offspring for it to be healthy. What people fail to notice is that human beings influence each other all the time, can anybody seriously say that their partner has never influenced them in any way? Obviously not. Most of the time, parents in these situations go out of their way NOT to influence their offspring too much, thus redressing the perceived imbalance. Even if that wasn’t the case, that still doesn’t mean that these relationships ought be banned, as I have pointed out earlier, other types of relationship in which a power differential exists can be happy and healthy… well so can parent/offspring consanguinamorous ones too. If the relationship is happy and loving, what possible benefit can there be for banning such relationships? None at all.

The ‘consent’ argument doesn’t work here either, because if somebody is old enough to consent to sex, they are old enough to consent to it with any other adult, and they are old enough to decide who they are going to have sex with, that’s just basic logic. If a young adult, based on the feelings that they have decides to have a romantic relationship with his or her parent… what business is that of anyone else? None of anyones damn business if you ask me. Telling these young people that they can’t consent is deeply insulting, and in fact is an attempt at infantilizing those young people.

Some people argue that there is more scope for abuse in intergenerational consanguinamory…. based on what evidence exactly? Also, we don’t ban relationships based on the fact that abuse MAY occur. There are plenty of relationships which are ‘normal’ in the sense that they are between same age, unrelated, heterosexual persons that become abusive. People don’t judge ALL relationships as bad based on the few that do abuse their spouse. Furthermore, while it is possible for an incest relationship to become abusive, it doesn’t mean that it will. People do so much assuming and it’s a non-argument really. In all cases, abuse itself should always be illegal, but consenting adults in loving relationships need not be criminalized on the basis that they may at some point become abusive.

I don’t give a fuck if somebody wants to say ‘it’s not normal’, since ‘normal’ pretty much defies definition because everyone is different, that’s actually a non-argument. Intergenerational consanguinamory IS normal and healthy, there is no valid  argument based on power differentials that should make them otherwise. If power differentials were such an issue in relationships, then it would be illegal for the rich to marry the poor, or for a physically weak person to marry a body builder, or a middle aged person to marry a young person… see how ridiculous and arbitrary it all is?  All of the above happens in real life, and while people may have their opinions, those opinions are not considered to be a basis for criminalizing these relationships… so why the hell is intergenerational consanguinamory considered a legal matter? My point is that it shouldn’t be. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is none of the concern of the state.

The Nature-Nurture debate… which makes us consanguinamorous?

In short, are we just born this way, or did something make us consanguinamorous? Interesting question, and no doubt not one that we will find  out the answer to any time soon. Add to that the fact that it might be nature in some of us, and nurture in others. Either way the answers are not going to be clear cut and definitive, rather, this essay is here to explore different lines of thinking and possibilities.

I argued in previous articles that consanguinamory is an orientation for some of us, in much the same way that homosexuality is an orientation. That would imply of course that it is inbuilt, it is something that we ‘just are’ because that’s the way we’re  born, it’s our NATURE. Yet this is not true of all consanguinamorous people, for many it could be environmental factors that are an issue, like a GSA situation where two people are separated when one or both are kids… and then reunite as adults. Had the separation not occurred, the attraction wouldn’t have happened… it’s NURTURE in cases such as these.

The arguments for NATURE:

  • Some people have no natural aversion to incest. The Westermarck effect does not take place for some consanguinamorous persons.
  • Some people know from an early age that they are different in this way, and fantasize about it from puberty onwards. This may be in general terms or fantasies about one relative in particular.
  • Many people in consanguinamorous relationships say that they have tried and have been unfulfilled by relationships with unrelated persons. Emotionally, they need the family bond to be there was well as the lovers bond in order for it to feel ‘right’ and ‘normal’ to them.
  • Many consanguinamorous people successfully find a mate within their family unit, which could suggest that it could run in the family as a genetic trait (not that there is necessarily an ‘incest gene’, only that the gene for incest aversion is not functioning as it would normally).
  • Some consanguinamorous people are attracted to more than one family member.

Arguments for NURTURE:

  • Some people, especially in GSA consanguinamory ARE naturally incest adverse. They only find themselves with family members they have been separated from, and therefore the Westermarck effect works for them in all other instances.
  • People can, even unknowingly and subconsciously, influence each other. Therefore the argument that it might be a genetic trait could be untrue on that basis.
  • People who are brought up to be more open minded and liberal might be more open to the idea than others who are raised in more conservative homes.
  • Some people are bisanguinamarous (both consanguinamorous and exsanguinamorous at the same time) and have no preference either way, if it was nature, wouldn’t they have a strong preference one way or the other?

All of this is interesting of course, because it shows that even given solid facts, there is more than one way to interpret those facts.

For example, you could have a brother/sister couple in their early 20s, both of them were mutually attracted to each other and experimented together when they were teenagers. Neither has seriously wanted to go out and find somebody else because they’re happy together. They were raised by open-minded parents but they still keep their relationship a secret from them just in case they get a bad reaction because of the sheer strength of the taboo. The sister is also attracted to her uncle, her dad and her other brother… but won’t go there because she won’t cheat on the brother she is already with. The brother has a crush on somebody at work, but he won’t cheat on his sister because he loves her more.

You could say that the Westermarck effect was ineffective for this couple because they are wired up for consanguinamory by their genes. You could also argue that the pubescent exploration had an influence on them and therefore significantly reduced the impact of the incest taboo. You could argue that their open-minded and liberal parents attitudes had molded them to be free-thinkers, and thinking outside the box is required for consanguinamory to occur. You could say that the sister was fully fledged consanguinamorous by nature because she is attracted to several members of her family, but you can’t say the same for the bisanguinamorous brother who feels attracted to an unrelated woman at work. One could argue that they are both properly consanguinamorous because neither has seriously considered having a real relationship with an unrelated person.

See how complicated it gets when you try to apply the nature/nurture debate to just ONE relationship that looked like a simple case of bro/sis romance. To apply the debate to the whole community would generate so many contradictory lines of thinking that the whole project would become a huge tangled mass of confusion.

The only conclusion I can draw from any of this is that both nature and nurture play a part in consanguinamory. It is more nature for some of us, especially those who have been involved in non-GSA consanguinamory, and for those who feel it’s their nature, it is okay to consider it an orientation. Most GSA consanguinamorists would say it is the situation of being separated that causes it for them, not any inbuilt preference, and so it is mostly nurture for that group. It’s all very interesting and thought provoking to say the least.

Incest may become legal in scotland: UPDATE

You may remember me posting this a few days ago.  Sadly, the outcome was predictable… it was immediately thrown out. The news article about this is found here. According to it:

The committee immediately threw out the petition on the basis that there is “no indication that there is any desire” to legalise incest in Scotland.

Wow… what a lame and sorry excuse for keeping an archaic and discriminatory law on the books. Of course they won’t see desire for it to be legalized… people are too fucking scared to stand up to these bastards who discriminate against us, and for good reason, admitting to incest is likely to get you thrown in jail. I’d tell those MPs to do their research online, come see how many of us there are and how we feel about these laws. Of course there is the desire for the law the change, just not the desire to out oneself in the present climate. These are MPs and they supposed to debate these issues without emotion… and they can’t see the bloody obvious.

The background info for the petition is a really good read, and pretty much says what I’ve been saying on my blog and others have also been saying for much much longer. It contains many gems of wisdom, but I particularly liked the conclusion;

Thus there are no valid reasons to discriminate harshly against the ACI section of the community on the basis of:

1. public opinion; 2. protection of the child and family 3. solidarity of the family and community 4. genetic safety argument.

The Scots incest law perpetuates superstitious, bigoted outmoded beliefs but in its present form, its continued existence is unjustified.  The present Scots incest law does not provide protection to all the children or adults in a family, but many, though abused, gain a lifelong stigma, and psychological trauma though their persecutor, goes ‘Scot free’ because he or she did not violate a vagina with a penis, the only grounds for an incest charge under the existing law.

However the law does unnecessarily and unfairly punish consensual adult incest, breaching the rights to sexual autonomy for all consenting adults that is accepted in other more developed countries.

Well, after reading all that it disgusts me that nobody took this well written, coherent and accurate document seriously enough to give it more than cursory consideration. If there was any justice in the world, it would have been put forth long ago, and the ridiculous laws abolished.

Consanguinamory is a blessing, not a curse.

Often a the beginning of a consanguinamorous relationship, people tend to feel that this special double love is both a blessing and a curse at the same time. Some people just plain wish that they didn’t have these feelings because it would make life much easier for them not having to deal with the fact that they’re breaking one of society’s strongest taboos. This is understandable and absolutely normal at that stage given the climate that we live in.

Society harms us with it’s prejudice, telling us we are sick and weirdos and all kinds of things. Many of us internalize this mantra and become self-hating (just as when homosexuality was illegal there were many homophobic homosexuals), because most people do not think at any given time that society can be so far wrong. Yet the truth is that they ARE so far wrong about us that it’s not even funny. By getting people to hate themselves for what they are, society is doing psychological damage to people, and to society that doesn’t matter because they’ve already demonized us by calling us every name under the sun.

This blog exists to demonstrate that we CAN take pride in our identity as consanguinamorous people and love ourselves for who we are. I want to help to undo the damage that has been done to many peoples self-worth as a result of all the anti-incest hate.

Over the years I’ve spoken to so many people over the Internet, and the common thread seems to be that we fall so deeply in love through the mixture of family love and romantic love that it feels like the best feeling on Earth. Nothing could be better, and it can be rather overwhelming. For us the ‘double-love’ is truly the most complete love, and nothing else comes even close. The other common thread is self-hate for feeling that way about a family member because of societal condemnation. A blessing and a curse.

Now for myself, I thought about it and thought about it for ages. If society was different in the way it treated us, would so many consanguinamorous people end up hating their true nature? I had to conclude no. Now instead of sitting on my arse doing nothing about the problem, I decided to start this blog. I tackle the self-hate people hold in two ways… to demonstrate to people that they are normal and healthy, AND to tackle the prejudice, without which the self-hate wouldn’t be there in the first place. That, of course can only be done through education and blogs like this one.

We don’t deserve all the hate from the outside world, who are basically ignorant when it comes to these issues (why wouldn’t they be, they’ve never had to tackle the issues themselves and the information out there in the mainstream is all about abusers and rapists… think Josef Fritzl and you’ve got how the public see us), rather we deserve their acceptance and tolerance, and we deserve equal rights, including the rights of marriage if we so choose.

If we seriously tackle the hate, and the self-hate, all that is left is overwhelming double love, the most intense, deep, and beautiful experience we could wish to have. That to me sounds like a real blessing, not a curse at all. The curse will be lifted. You should not have to change because there is nothing wrong with you. It is the world that must change, and change it will, because blogs like this one will continue until the dream becomes our reality.

I would urge anyone interested in activism to start their own website and give the public your take on it. Don’t be shy we’ve all got something of value to contribute to the cause. Let your heart be filled with love, let your mind be filled with knowledge and the desire to help, and let your unique voice be heard in the wilderness. Mine is but one strong voice, but the collective voices of the whole community will be too loud for the public to ignore us any more. We exist and we will be heard.