What is true open-mindedness?

Most people in life would describe themselves as ‘open-minded’ people, but I ask you this… what exactly IS open-mindedness? I personally would define that as the ability to think outside the box, and to see things as they truly are, rather than how we are taught to perceive the world around us. Put simply, the ability of independent thought leading to the drawing of logical and rational conclusions based upon all available evidence.

Many people say that they’re ‘open-minded’ because they support LGBT people, and they are as usual very vocal about opposing homophobia in order to show how ‘open-minded’ they are. Yet these same, supposedly open-minded people bawk at the very thought of consensual adult incest, using anything from the mutant babies argument to citing cases of rape and childhood sexual abuse to demonstrate how ‘all incest is sick and abusive’. They fail to notice that there are some consenting adults who are closely related and not harming anyone with their relationships, and that their arguments are irrational, inaccurate and highly emotive in nature. Clearly, this is NOT an open minded state of mind. So when somebody claims to be open minded and exhibits the above behavior towards consanguinamory, they are not being honest with themselves about their open-mindedness.

I would put it to such people that it is usually best to analyze ALL available information before making ones mind up about anything. This includes seeing all sides of an argument and trying to understand others points of view, even if one disagrees with those views. In the end, we may agree to disagree, but mutual respect is created by such an attempt.

Many people are just totally unaware of the scope of their own ignorance, having relied on ‘common knowledge’ as a source of information for their entire lives. I suspect many people are completely unaware of the fact that they are doing any such thing, and so they believe in all honesty that their views are really their own when nothing could be further from the truth. Living in a state where ones opinions are borrowed from such society is by definition living in a box and being unable to think outside of it. So much for ‘open-mindedness’ then.

As we all know, society labels incest as inherently abusive, bad, wrong, perverted, sick and depraved. Clearly, these labels need to be challenged logically and passionately if we are to change them. It isn’t an easy undertaking I know, but every person who knows the truth about consensual adult incest can do a little to help by reblogging articles (or even writing them). What could also help is showing people how to be more open minded in a more general way, demonstrating how the box of ‘common knowledge’ is trapping people in faulty lines of thinking that lead to bad outcomes.

In general people need to be thinking for themselves and stop letting society do the thinking for them. Let’s not stop there, let’s stop shutting people up for having views that run against society’s norms, or mocking and belittling people for thinking differently, or for simply BEING different in some way. Not only would this lead to our liberation as consanguinamorous people, but to the liberation of all oppressed people around the world, and the subsequent ditching of faulty ideologies. Such a major paradigm shift would likely see the end of war, poverty, discrimination in all it’s forms, and inequality in the world. Now isn’t that a worthy goal?

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A nice little letter

This is Jonbob0008. I watched your videos, subscribed to your channel on YouTube and read all of your blog. I think you’re doing a wonderful thing and I’ll be sure to check on it for updates.

I did want to respond to a couple of your articles, but I do that another day. You’re obviously an amazing person, and Dad was lucky to have you, even your relationship hadn’t been consanguineous.

I noticed that it’s been a couple weeks since your last update. Hope you update soon.

Sincerely,
Jonbob

Thanks very much Jonbob, glad you like my blog so much and I hope you continue to do so. I admit I haven’t done any more youtube stuff in a while, but I will get back around to it as time permits, but most new material is in the form of writing, and some of that, my articles, become my podcast also… so check that out if you want to listen rather than read.

Thanks for the compliments,

Jane Doe

People don’t choose their feelings

This is something I wanted to address today because it is another way to debunk the old and tired ‘just pick another person’ mantra that the mainstream inflict upon us.

I would like every person who reads this article to ask themselves, how did you choose your partner? I would wager that almost nobody would reply ‘Oh, well I drew up a list of desirable qualities, then I looked around me to see who met my criteria… and then chose the best match’. This isn’t the way that life happens, and it is not really a good basis for a relationship. Many people might appear to be well suited on paper, and then when they date it falls apart. You see this all the time with people who try their luck with dating agencies. Why does this method fail? It fails because the number one thing that makes any relationship work is peoples FEELINGS towards each other, no chemistry and nothing will happen.

Now, imagine if society turned around to those failed dating site users and said ‘ah, but you’re the best possible match… what’s wrong with you, why can’t you feel anything for this person?’ Now here’s the rub… they have NO CHOICE over whether they feel a particular emotion towards a particular person.

We experience the reverse of this faulty reasoning. Society says to us ‘Oh God, you’re RELATED, that’s fucked up, what the hell is wrong with you, how can you possibly feel this way?’ Well dumbasses, we have NO CHOICE about whether or not we feel attracted to a family member. None of us drew up a list and decided consciously to feel such an attraction, it is something that JUST HAPPENS NATURALLY. Of course, we do choose whether or not to act upon that attraction, but not on whether or not we feel it.

So to all the naysayers and bigots, I will ask them what THEY would do if one day they found themselves in our shoes, feeling an intense and deep form of love towards one of their immediate family? Really, not so easy to be so bigoted is it when you imagine what that would be like. It’s called having a little empathy for other human beings who might just have feelings that differ a little from what is considered ‘normal’.

That is another thing, why should LOVE between consenting adults of any persuasion be labeled as immoral, dirty, perverted or sick? Personally I believe WE ARE NORMAL, even though others may not see us as such. Love is love and should be respected by society, not condemned, attacked and punished.

A guide to dealing with bigotry

This is one of those articles that I wish wasn’t necessary, but sadly it is. Let’s face it, consanguinamorous relationships are not popular. In fact, consanguinamory may well be the least understood and most persecuted sexual minority groups. It doesn’t help when there are so many news stories from around the world reinforcing the ‘incest is disgusting and abusive’ mindset when they bring cases forward either of child abuse or sexual assault. Many authors of said articles don’t even differentiate between such horrible stories, and incest between consenting adults. Not only is this deeply unfair and insulting, it’s also a form of intellectual dishonesty. Right now many people do not want to deal with the fact that consensual adult incest happens. Sadly, this leaves our community in a place where at some point, either on the Internet or offline, we have to deal with bigotry, misunderstanding, and hatred.

Thankfully, I’ve never personally had to deal with the offline variety, but I will start here because this is something people experience, often from people they’ve known all their lives. Sad as it is, the only way to completely safeguard yourself from this is to be 100% vigilant about your security. This means telling nobody, and only getting together when you are 100% certain that you will not be discovered. This might be easy for some couples who live long distances away from their other family members and when everyone around them who they have as friends know them as a couple. It’s not so easy for many more who may have children that they are unable to hide their relationship from, or ex-partners who are still on the scene helping to raise those kids, or people from a close knit family where everyone knows everyone else’s business. Sometimes, people do get caught, and it is then time for damage control.

The first, and most frequently encountered form of bigotry is the assumption of abuse or coercion. We cannot entirely blame our accusers here, their impressions have been gotten from the media and from the pool of ‘common knowledge’ (not that actual knowledge is common within it… but that’s another subject entirely). Sometimes the best solution to this is education; to talk openly and honestly with that person if they are reasonable and get them to see that although this may be something that he or she wouldn’t dream of doing, that doesn’t mean that others don’t want to, and that it can and does happen without any abuse taking place. Occasionally, they may decide to cut you off entirely, that’s something that sadly happens to many people from our community and it is heartbreaking. However, in order to preserve your own dignity and self-respect, it is important to ask yourself whether somebody who can throw away a lifetime of being a friend and family member to you so quickly and easily is worth your tears? Some people come around, others don’t, it’s a fact of life, and occasionally with some you may need to cut your losses.

Sometimes it can be even worse… some people shop their relatives to the authorities which leads to people being arrested, kids being removed from their homes… etc. If this ever happens to you, my advice is to ‘no comment’ any interview, or else, DENY, DENY AND DENY SOME MORE. Remember they can’t charge you without solid evidence or testimony, and they usually can only get that if one of you confesses. They may even try to stall you by claiming your partner confessed… but still deny because this may be a ploy to trip you up! The only time this would not work is if you were actually caught red handed by somebody who then reported you, but I would hope you would never put yourself in such a compromising position in the first place. Vigilance is key with these kinds of things… sad but true.

Online of course, things are substantially easier. We may well get the odd person here and there who flames us, or we may have to demolish articles of complete bullshit, but at least our voice is out there raising awareness.

As a matter of fact, our online community is the key to getting things changed out there in the offline world. The more prominent our websites become, and the more people get to see them and read them, the more they will understand us and therefore as a gradual process they will become more tolerant towards us. Eventually of course the movement will have to go offline and into the streets with our banners and slogans… but this is a long way off yet. We have a mountain to climb, but climb it we will, one step at a time, little by little. Our people are finally becoming united, and we are finding our voice, this alone can make all the difference for the future.

Although the attitudes prevalent in society may seem solid and unmovable, they are not. Remember, it was less than a century ago that homosexuals were similarly discriminated against, and look at how far the LGBT rights movement has come. As it is for them, so too will it be for us, it is simply a matter of time, effort and patience. Bigotry can and will be defeated, both personally and en-mass, and the key is education. This is why blogs like this one are so important, and I would strongly urge anyone considering blogging not to hesitate. Every single voice is important, and it doesn’t matter if you cover the same points as me (I knew I was covering the same ground as Full Marriage Equality and The Final Manifesto before I got started), we all have our own unique perspective and style. It also doesn’t matter if you don’t agree with me on every point… you don’t have to! The point is that more people demonstrate the natural diversity within our community and people need to see that.

Kindred Spirits is down at the moment

I’ve received e-mails and PMs over facebook this last day regarding the status of our forum Kindred Spirits. Nobody is able to access the forum at the moment, and it appears that all other forumup forums are experiencing the same difficulties so it is not just us, as I have tried clicking onto other forumup forums to see what happened, and the result is the same 😦

The situation is out of our control but I hope it is going to be resolved very soon. I will update you all on the situation as news arises.

Another idiot who doesn’t know the difference between child rape and adult incest

Oh man, these bullshit articles just keep on coming don’t they. This one from Ghana was brought to my attention by a friend over at facebook this evening. So let’s take a look shall we:

I have been wondering whether in our statute books there is a clear punishment for incest, especially where it involves underage children who may not necessarily be blood relations of their “attackers” such as a stepsister.

So presumably the author believes that incest should warrant some form of punishment whether the participants are all of legal age or not. This is prejudice at work, again. Of course those who molest children should be punished, because they harm the children that they are defiling. Consensual adult incest need not be an issue for the law at all.

The issue of incest keeps being reported in the media.

Yes it does, and unfortunately most of the articles are as ignorant and as bigoted as this one.

Fathers are sleeping with their daughters and sometimes even fathering their biological daughter’s children.

As long as the daughters in question are consenting adults, this shouldn’t be an issue. I had a relationship with my father and had never felt so loved and protected! Please get educated about this subject. Furthermore, who a person chooses to procreate with is a personal choice, and the current data available (extrapolated from double first cousins who have same amount of DNA in common as full siblings) right now would suggest that the risk of procreating with immediate family is around 9%… much less than what many would have us believe. You don’t stop other high risk groups from bearing children, so why forbid incest couples?

It is happening with brothers, stepbrothers and uncles forcibly sleeping with their female relatives but what punishments are there to deter others?

What you’re describing here is NOT consensual incest, it is RAPE. You can easily criminalize rape without criminalizing consenting adults.

My curiosity on incest was piqued following a story reported in the March 19 issue of the Daily Graphic concerning two brothers from a community in the Sagnariga District in the Northern Region who are reported to have defiled their 15-year-old stepsister.

The brothers, 32 and 27 years old, are reported to have confessed to the incest when they appeared before the Katariga Kamo Naa, the chief of the area where the brothers come from. They also confessed that on various occasions, they defiled the girl despite the fact that they have wives, with the older brother having two wives.

You had two ADULTS preying on an UNDERAGE GIRL. Again, this can and should be criminalized without also condemning incest where both parties are of legal age and in a mutually consensual relationship.

Also, why would not having wives make their disgusting actions any more excusable? That’s like saying that a man who lacks a girlfriend is likely to be a rapist… BULLSHIT! Idiotic statements like that are an insult to the male gender as a whole.

So what punishment did they face after confessing to the offence? According to the Daily Graphic report, while the father of the two brothers disowned them as his sons, the chief of the area to whom they confessed the offence, banished them from the community.

This is obviously an injustice, of course they should have got substantial prison time for this kind of crime.

As for the poor 15-year-old girl at the centre of the offence it looks as if she has been left alone to deal with her trauma.

We need the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Protection to go to the aid of the girl as quickly as possible, not only to offer her psychological counselling but also to take up the matter and deal with it to the logical conclusion. The girl’s future should be a concern so she does not live in fear and ridicule for the rest of her life.

Why would she fear being subjected to ridicule? She is a RAPE VICTIM. Of course counseling should be on offer to her as a matter of course to deal with the aftermath of this trauma.

A few years ago, an Austrian incest case became international headline news when a father kept his own biological daughter in their basement apartment, denying her access to the rest of the world and fathered her children.

Both the girl and the children were badly bruised psychologically. Social welfare had to move in quickly to get them rehabilitated. He was eventually convicted and sentenced to imprisonment.

Oh God really…. do we REALLY need Josef Fritzl brought into this conversation? He’s as far removed from CONSENSUAL ADULT INCEST as you can get. No decent loving father in his right mind would ever consider doing anything so horrible, and ALL of the consanguinamory community finds people like him DISGUSTING. A loving incest relationship between father and daughter is nothing like this, I know from personal experience.

If you ask me, I would say incest, whether by a blood relation or non-blood relation, should never be downplayed as it involves the future of a vulnerable girl or young woman. We should not leave incest cases for just families to solve without looking at the psychological effects the attack might have on the victim.

NOT ALL INCEST IS ABUSIVE, I would make this abundantly clear. A young woman is NOT vulnerable, she is a grown woman capable of making her own choices about who to have sexual relations with, if she chooses a family member then that should be respected.

Psychological trauma only happens in two ways: either by sexual abuse (which should always be punished anyway) or by society telling consenting adults that they are wrong bad and disgusting because they are related.

Sometimes the victims live under the same roof with their attackers and they recognise them as their older relatives in whom they can confide for protection. Why would society look on for such trust to be abused and the young girls taken advantage of?

Again, if it is an ATTACK, then it is RAPE. Rape is NOT the same thing as incest…period.

Incest, in some instances, is more like rape/defilement. In the case involving the 15-year-old girl, for example, the first time the incest took place, she had gone to the older brother’s room on March 5, 2016, to watch television in the night. She fell asleep and the two stepbrothers forcibly had sex with her and threatened her not to tell anyone.

This case IS rape and defilement… but it is the double rape that’s the issue, NOT the fact she was related to the perpetrator. The crime would have been equally disgusting if she had been raped by two unrelated men.

Though she informed her mother, she did not believe her and dismissed the allegation until it happened the second time. This time, the younger of the brothers who is 27, sent her to buy him fried yam.

On her return with the yam, he pushed her down and forcibly had sex with her. She shouted for help and that brought other people to the scene. Are both instances not defilement cases? Unfortunately, it had to happen a second time before the girl’s own mother could believe her daughter was in some form of danger.

Then shame on the mother for not believing her daughter the first time it happened. What the hell is wrong with these people? If I had a 15 year old daughter who said she had been raped, the first thing I would do would be to report it to the police and get them to take swabs to do a DNA test to make sure that there would be DNA evidence against the perpetrators! Why the hell this mother didn’t do this is mind boggling, it’s not a normal reaction.

One would like to plead with the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Protection to take the issue of the 15-year-old girl up with no hesitation. The Ministry should also look into the many incest cases that have been reported over time and left hanging and seek justice for the girls.

If for nothing at all, the girls need to be seen to be receiving some psychological help. The trauma they suffer at the hands of their attackers need to be cured so they do not suffer any mental setbacks in future.

You know, sometimes we have to reach the end of an article before we can find a single sentence we can agree on. OF COURSE the victims of these vicious crimes need support, and I am glad that the article writer has expressed that.

HOWEVER, TELLING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INCEST BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS AND CHILD RAPE SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT. PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE TO CONFUSE THE TWO!

Another letter of thanks

Another letter of thanks

With permission from the person who sent it, I will show you an e-mail I got yesterday:

Hello Jane,
I thought I’d finally get up the courage to send you a quick private note. I got your email address from your excellent blog and I do hope you don’t mind this email. If there is a problem, please let me know and I will not contact you again.
I’d like to say thank you for your blog and your words. You have a clarity that I appreciate and need to hear. Thanks so much for your many columns and topics on your blog.
What my daughter and I have shared and continue to share has taken me through and enormous roller coaster of emotions and feelings, mental as well as physical. We’ve both had to take the time to try and sort them out alone as well as together. Frankly, despite the things we have done together, it’s been at times overwhelming.
Anyway, thank you again.
[username deleted]

There you have it folks… and may I say that I enjoy receiving letters like this and certainly do not mind anyone contacting me. That is after all part of the reason I have put up my e-mail for the public to see.

I think that most people in this sort of situation can understand the emotional roller coaster, it happens to all of us as we try to sort out our feelings. I am glad that my blog and others like it can help people on this special journey.

Jane

The Consanguinamory Study

Dear Readers,

Just yesterday an ally friend (who wishes to remain anonymous) over at facebook and I were chatting about the impact that anti-incest discrimination has on peoples lives, this conversation was sparked by my recent article Consanguinamory and mental health. He also put it to me that if the laws are going to change, then some legislators will require hard data to prove that the current laws are doing more harm than good. In other words, it is in our interest that such a study is done in order to expedite the necessary changes in legislation.

I’ve had this on my mind all day, and I have to agree with my friend. Rather than wait for some statistician or psychologist to perform a study, I have chosen to do one myself. There are a few good reasons for this. Many professionals will want to meet study subjects in person or will ask for real life details, obviously the numbers required to get a decent sample base will not be forthcoming as most consanguinamorous people are too afraid to participate, and so the statistics generated would not necessarily be representative of our community. Likewise an online poll method would also be out of the question, it is too easy for trolls to simply clear their browsing history and submit their answers multiple times.

I have chosen the middle ground so as to negate possible trolling as much as humanly possible while maintaining the privacy and anonymity of the participants. I will conduct the survey online and people will e-mail the results to me. This way I can check that nobody is sending multiple copies because I can cross reference the e-mail addresses. The potential for a troll to sign up for multiple e-mails and use each one to submit an identical responses is still there, but I would argue that most people who would troll would also lack the patience to do this. While my system is not absolutely foolproof, it is the best I can do while protecting the privacy of the community. I am looking for around 500 responses to complete the study.

I have decided to extend the scope of the study beyond the effects of prejudice to encompass many other topics too. I’m doing this because there are many things that are unknowns in our community, and although most of us more experienced with incest communities on the Internet have impressions that we know to be true, it is always good to have the statistics at hand to back up those impressions to further prove our points.

For this reason I would like to ask all persons within the consanguinamorous community to please participate in my study and send their responses to me via e-mail. Also, if people respond as a couple, you need to fill out one each, not one between two, thank you in advance for your participation.

Jane Doe

——————————–

The Consanguinamory Study

A bit about you (delete as appropriate):

I am male/female/trans/intersex

I am age group 18-28,   29-38,   39-48,   49-58,   59-68,   69-78,   89 or more

I am consanguinamorous and (delete those that do not apply) heterosexual, gay or lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, transgendered, polyamorous, monogamous

I am a full time student, living on state benefits, working but poor, working and okay, working and moderately well off, working and very well off, working and filthy rich, not working and filthy rich.

I am educated to the level of: high school, college, university graduate

I am a homeowner/tenant

I am living in a country where incest is legal, illegal

 

About your relationship (again, delete as appropriate – if you had/have more than one consanguine relationship do this section twice, once for each relationship):

My relationship is current, in the past

My relationship is/was brother/sister, brother/brother, sister/sister, mother/son, mother/daughter, father/daughter, father/son, aunt/nephew, aunt/niece, uncle/niece,  uncle/nephew, cousins m/f, cousins m/m, cousins f/f, other (please specify)

My relationship can be described as family with benefits, spousal type, other ( please describe)

My relationship can be considered GSA/Non-GSA (genetic sexual attraction occurs after the parties were separated when at least one party was a small child, and then are reunited when the youngest party is an adult)

We have been/were together for [X] months/years

My family member was/was not my first sexual partner

My family member was/was not my only sexual partner

We share/d a house together yes/no

We had [x] number of children together

If you answered anything other than 0 in the above question, do any of the children have any noticeable defect as a result of being the product of incest? (do not answer yes for minor things that are normal within the population such as needing glasses getting hayfever…etc)    Yes/No

I had [x] number of children with an unrelated person

Would you describe this relationship as loving and healthy?   Yes/No

 

Feelings about the relationship and societal reaction to consanguine relationships:

We would/would have married if we could   yes/no/would consider it

In the following statements, delete as appropriate:

  • I wish I wasn’t attracted to a family member/I am happy to be what I am
  • I feel ashamed of my feelings/I am happy with my feelings
  • I fear getting caught/I am careful so I know I won’t get caught/we’ve been caught but everything was okay/we’ve been caught and reported to police
  • I feel there is something wrong with us/there is nothing wrong with us
  • I am secretly afraid that I might be a sick, perverted and broken person/I know that my desires are normal
  • I am afraid that I might be coercing my partner without realizing that I’m doing it/I know I am not coercing him or her
  • I am afraid that I might be a victim of coercion without realizing it/ I am not a victim
  • I think society has the right to be concerned about incest/I think society is ignorant and that’s why they’re prejudiced against us
  • I think it’s probably a good thing it’s against the law/The law needs to change and the sooner the better

 

Mental Health questions:

While I am not a mental health expert, I believe that the answers to these questions could be useful for such experts. As a result of fear of persecution and prosecution, or self-hate because of the consanguinamorous aspect of your sexuality, have you suffered any of the following:

Anxiety  Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Panic Attacks   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Mood Swings   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Feeling Depressed  Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Nightmares   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Vivid worst-case scenario visions or daydreams   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Suicidal thoughts   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

Insomnia   Yes a lot/Sometimes/Never

 

If you answered ‘Yes a lot’ or ‘Sometimes’ to any of the above questions, have you sought help from a professional?   Yes/No/this question doesn’t apply to me

If you answered ‘yes’ to the above question, were you able to tell your doctor or mental health professional about your relationship?  Yes/No

 

Feelings about the online communities:

I am including this section because it will help me and my fellow bloggers to serve the community better, and to show general attitudes.

Do you feel that there is enough good information about consensual adult incest on the internet?    Yes/No/Not thought about it

Do you think that the blogs (not just mine… there are several available look at my ‘useful links’ section to see them all) available online are relevant and useful resources for people who are struggling with their sexuality?  Yes/No/Somewhat

Do you think that the blogs accurately portray what it is like to be in consanguine relationships?   Yes/No/Somewhat

What’s your view on the incest porn sites? I hate them, they’re demeaning and degrading/ I don’t watch them so I don’t care/ I watch them sometimes but I can see why some people get upset about them/ I watch them and like them, where’s the harm?

Do you think that the results of this study will help lawmakers to make the right choices and combat the ignorance?   Yes/No/Not sure but I hope so

 

Other comments:

Please add your own comments on this study here, all comments will be anonymously published after the conclusion of the study. Please include any suggestions on how we can improve our community and serve you better. Thank you for taking part.