The Consanguinamory Study Analysis

Well guys, here it is, the long awaited results of my study:

General Information

The purpose of the study was to gain some insight into the composition and attitudes of the consanguinamory community, in addition to exploring the extent of suffering caused by incestophobic attitudes in society.

The questions were presented in multiple choice format on Surveyplanet, and the participants were able to choose more than one answer on some questions where this was applicable. Participants were also able to skip questions that did not apply to them, or they did not wish to answer.

The survey was online for one year, and generated 164 responses, 5 of which were ‘blank’ surveys where the participant filled out no questions. I can only speculate that those viewers may simply have been curious, but as no questions were answered by them I have chosen to exclude these ‘blanks’ from the overall data pool. So my working sample size is 159 people, the majority of which answered most if not all of the questions.

What’s your approximate age?

Under 25s: 30 (18.9%)

26 – 35: 43 (27%)

36 – 45: 31 (19.5%)

46 – 55: 27 (17%)

56 – 65: 17 (10.7%)

66 – 75: 8 (5%)

75 or older: 3 (1.9%)

This is pretty much what I expected to see, a pretty reasonable spread of people from all ages, but less so from older people. I don’t think that this is indicative of the older generation having less consang people within it (human nature after all does not vary much if at all between the generations), only of the fact that a smaller percentage of them are inclined towards using modern technology and the internet, this would reduce the probability of an older person who has been involved finding my survey.

All participants answered this question.

What’s your gender?

Male: 104 (65.8%)

Female: 54 (34.2%)

Intersex: 0

This result surprised me somewhat, I was expecting a roughly 50:50 split of men and women. I do not know why this result has happened, but I can speculate that it is possible that more women were cautious about taking the survey than men, or that more of my readers are male. In any case it’s interesting to think about.

Only one participant did not answer this question.

How would you define your sexuality?

Heterosexual: 107

Homosexual: 5

Bisexual: 36

Pansexual: 6

Monogamous 30

Polyamorous: 30

Being a multiple choice question, people could pick more than one option. I did this purposefully to allow people the opportunity to define themselves more fully.

As expected, the majority of people were heterosexual and a small number were homosexual, which is exactly what we see in the general population. What did surprise me was the number of bisexuals, I do not know if this is unique to our community, or if bisexuality really is this common in the general population but perhaps less talked about. Many bisexuals are assumed heterosexual if they are in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex.

I was expecting also a greater number of people to specify if they were monogamous or polyamorous. As it turns out less than half specified and of those that did both options got 30 hits apiece. I do not know if this 50:50 split by those who chose one or the other is significant at this point or not. It is assumed that most people are monogamous, but perhaps that is just that, an assumption.

In hindsight, I probably should have put the straight/bi//pan/gay options in a separate question to the mono-poly options, thus enticing more people to specify mono or poly. I will bear this in mind for any further surveys and perhaps gain a more accurate picture.

One participant did not answer this question.

How would you describe your approximate income?

Always Skint: 10

Just Enough: 40

Comfortable: 53

Enough and a few luxuries: 30

Well off: 22

Very Wealthy: 2

Again this is what I expected, for most people to have enough to get by or a little bit more with a few people being either at the poorer or the richer end of the scale. I deliberately kept the question vague because I didn’t want the participants to feel like I was prying too much (income after all is a personal question). But this serves it’s purpose, it demonstrates that most of us have enough money and that some of us are able to enjoy a lifestyle that is more than just meeting out basic needs.

Two participants did not answer the question.

What’s your level of education?

Dropped out of High School: 3 (1.9%)

Finished High School with some Qualifications: 39 (24.7%)

Went to College: 44 (27.8%)

Went to University: 72 (45.6%)

This one will be a shocker to the outside world, but it is no surprise to me. Contrary to societal stereotyping of us as backward hillbillies, and general losers in life, this demonstrates that we are in fact an intelligent group of people, with over 73% of us continuing our education after completing high school. I really wish I knew where the ridiculous stereotype of us as thick people came from in the first place, and now we have some hard evidence saying otherwise.

One participant did not answer this question.

Is incest legal in your country?

Yes: 13

No: 136

Don’t know: 9

This is pretty much what I expected since most participants are from Westernised countries and incest is illegal in most of those. I do however find it pretty concerning that some people who have been involved don’t know whether or not they’re breaking the law (and thus would need to hide). If anything, this means that we as the leaders of the consanguinamory community need to do more to raise awareness of our legal status in different locations. Every single person involved in consanguinamory needs to know whether they need to hide if they wish to remain where they are (some may have not choice due to existing obligations), and where to go to if they do not wish a life of hiding. This is a matter of staying safe.

One participant did not answer this question.

Is your consanguinamorous relationship current or in the past?

Current: 91

Past: 58

As expected, a greater number of people currently in relationships took part in the study. This was not a great surprise as many people whose relationships end leave the community, sometimes for good. However, for some people, it can be good to be around others who understand even if you’re no longer in a consanguinamorous relationship.

Eleven participants did not answer this question.

Was it GSA or Non-GSA?

GSA: 43 (27.4%)

Non-GSA: 114 (72.6%)

You know, I had a debate about this with The Final Manifesto when I first returned to the community. The main reason I included this question was to settle the debate, I was quite curious. He had theorized that non-GSA would be the most common, and at the time, I disagreed with him because I was expecting a 50:50 split for for GSA to be more common (based on the fact that GSA people tend to be more prominent and vocal within the community, especially on Facebook). However, this result proves conclusively that he was right and I wasn’t!

11 people did not answer the question.

Now, using these statistics, I am going to calculate an estimate of a previously UNKNOWN statistic… the percentage of people who are consanguinamorous. And to do this, we need some other external statistics.

Adoption rate: In the USA it is 2.5% according to THIS SOURCE. I see no reason that this rate would vary much for other countries.

Reunion rate: I was unable to find a statistic on this, but for the purposes of this approximation, I will assume 50%. I can always do a recalculation of this turns out at some later time to be way off base. When the real statistic is known, I will recalculate to update the estimate anyway, because a calculation using a known statistic is going to be more accurate than one in which assumptions have been made to make the calculation possible.

GSA rate: It is known that 50% of reunited relatives experience GSA.

So let’s calculate the percentage of people in GSA relationships first:

2.5% / 2 / 2 = 0.625%

To calculate non-GSA:

0.625%/27.4 x 72.6 = 1.66%

Now add both figures together to provide the total number:

1.66% + 0.625% = 2.28%

Although this is at this point a very speculative calculation, it does fall within the ballpark figure I was expecting of between 1% and 5%. I had previously estimated that the consanguinamory rate to be within this range simply because all other non-standard orientations exist within the range and I saw no reason why we would be any different. While this calculation provides an educated estimate only (seeing that the reunion rate is currently unknown and 50% is pure guesswork on my part, meaning that is lies in the middle of the possible maximum and minimum values), it proves my hypothesis correct. It also proves right something that Keith said ‘everyone knows somebody involved’… now if you know 50 people (and I guarantee that you do unless you’re some kind of recluse who spends 90% of their life in the basement hooked to video games or something), then you know somebody who is consanguinamorous. If you know 100 people then statistically, you know two! Bottom line: incest is NOT a rare occurrence, not by a long shot. It is simply well hidden and not talked about. We can now safely say this with some statistical backing.

What kind of relationship was it?

Brother/Sister: 77 (48%)

Brother/Brother: 3 (2%)

Sister/Sister: 9 (6%)

Mother/Son: 37 (23%)

Mother/Daughter: 3 (2%)

Father/Daughter: 26 (16%)

Father/Son: 2 (1%)

Aunt/Nephew: 5 (3%)

Aunt/Niece: 1 (1%)

Uncle/Niece: 2 (1%)

Uncle/Nephew: 5 (3%)

Cousins (m/f): 32 (20%)

Cousins (m/m): 0

Cousins (f/f): 1 (1%)

Other: 10 (6%)

Consolidation stats:

Siblings total: 89 (56%)

Maternal total: 40 (25%)

Paternal total: 28 (18%)

Parent/Offspring total: 68 (43%)

Aunts total: 6 (4%)

Uncles total: 7 (4%)

Cousins total: 33 (21%)

This question allowed multiple choice answers, as some people had experienced more than one consanguinamorous relationship. This allowed the participants to list the ones that they had been involved in.

These results throw up some expected results, but also some surprising ones. It will probably come as no shock that relationships between siblings is by far the most common form that consanguinamory takes. I was expecting Maternal and Paternal relationships to occur at roughly the same rate, however this study has revealed that Mother/Son relationships are the most frequently occurring of all the cross generational possibilities. I was also expecting consanguinamory with aunts and uncles to be more common than it actually is.

The ‘Other’ option was for people involved with step relatives, adopted relatives, and in laws where they were legally family but there was no actual blood relation.

After entering the data into the spreadsheet, I got this information from it:

Total number of people involved in ONE consanguinamorous relationship: 123 (77%)

Total number involved in MULTIPLE consanguinamorous relationships: 36 (23%)

Total number involved with FIRST DEGREE relatives: 141 (89%)

Total number involved with SECOND DEGREE relatives: 13 (8%)

Total number involved with THIRD DEGREE relatives: 30 (19%)

Now. Just out of interest, let’s see how many GSA vs NON-GSA persons have been involved with more than one consanguinamorous relationship.

GSA: 6 (14% of GSA)

Non-GSA: 32 (28% of non-GSA)

Very interesting. Non-GSA people are twice as likely to experience more than one type of consanguinamory. I believe that this is some evidence to support our claim that consanguinamory is an orientation. Non-GSA people, lacking Westermarck altogether, may or may not have a genetic component, until scientific research is done in this area we will not know. However, these statistics would indicate that consanguinamorous orientation may run in families since 28% have had more than one consang relationship, vs only 14% of GSA persons. Most GSA people DO experience Westermarck effect, but for the adoptive rather than their biological families.

What type of relationship was it?

Spousal: 64 (43.2%)

Family with Benefits: 84 (56.8%)

I can’t really say I am particularly surprised by this result, mostly because of the prejudice people would hide more easily as being family with benefits than they would as being a couple. Let’s see what else I can discover.

GSA Spousal: 25 (58%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 15 (35%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 40 (35%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 67 (59%)

Remainder of each did not specify relationship type.

This is truly a remarkable result. It shows that GSA people are more likely than non-GSA to form spousal type relationships, where non-GSA are more likely to opt for a family with benefits arrangement. While this isn’t much of a surprise to me, what IS a surprise is how GSA and non-GSA are almost perfect mirrors in terms of these percentages. Whether this is in any way significant I do not know.

Siblings Spousal: 37 (42%)

Siblings Family with Benefits: 50 (56%)

Parent/Offspring Spousal: 24 (35%)

Parent/Offspring Family with Benefits: 30 (44%)

Aunts and Uncles Spousal: 3 (23%)

Aunts and Uncles Family with Benefits: 8 (61%)

Cousins Spousal: 6 (18%)

Cousins Family with Benefits: 18 (55%)

This set of data is particularly interesting, it shows that consang people are more likely to form spousal relationships with immediate relatives than they are more distant relatives.

Lets see how many of each option were GSA and Non-GSA to see if we can spot a pattern. For the purposes of this small section, any relationships where the participant did not include either whether it was GSA or non-GSA, spousal or family with benefits, or siblings/parent-offspring…etc is excluded. Percentages are calculated as per those who made the specifications. So the results may not be 100% accurate, although I would consider them strong indicators of what’s going on.


GSA Spousal: 15 (58%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 11 (42%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 20 (32%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 42 (68%)

Almost twice the percentage of GSA siblings get into a spousal relationship than non-GSA siblings. This is interesting.

Spousal Total: 15+20=35 (40%)

Family with Benefits Total: 11+42=53 (60%)


GSA Spousal: 8 ( 62%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 5 (38%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 15 (38%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 24 (62%)

You know, this is uncanny, there is the GSA/Non-GSA perfect mirror AGAIN when you look at the percentages involved. Does it mean anything? I don’t know. All I can tell you for sure is that GSA people are more likely to form spousal relationships with their parents than non-GSA.

If we go by total percentages:

Spousal Total: 15+8=23 (44%)

Family with Benefits Total: 5+24=29 (56%)

Aunts and Uncles

GSA Spousal: 0

GSA Family with Benefits: 0

Non-GSA Spousal: 3 (25%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 9 (75%)

I find it interesting that there was no instances of GSA relationships involved, I have no idea why this may be, other than the fact that the sample size was too small perhaps. That said, of the non-GSA relationships, 75% of them were family with benefits and only 25% were Spousal.


GSA Spousal: 2 (33.3%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 4 (66.6%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 5 (23%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 17 (77%)

So let’s look at the totals:

Spousal total: 7 (25%)

Family with Benefits total: 21 (75%)

So this is exactly the same totals we are getting from Aunts and Uncles.


Consang people are as a whole more likely to form spousal relationships with their immediate relatives than they are with somebody more distantly related. Parent/offspring relationships have the greatest percentages of spousal relationships, particularly when those relationships are GSA. The greatest percentage of family with benefits relationships are non-GSA second and third degree relatives.

How Long were you together for?

Under a year: 42

1-5 years: 51

6-10 years: 22

11-15 years: 17

16-20 years: 13

21-25 years: 1

26-30 years: 3

31-35 years: 1

36-40 years: 0

Over 40 years: 2

These stats may look abysmal for the prospects of long term relationships, HOWEVER, remember how few older people took the study! So the outlook may not be as bleak as these statistics suggest.

Let’s take a quick look to see how long relationships which were in the past have lasted:

Under a year: 13

1-5 years: 27

6-10 years: 6

11-15 years: 4

16-20 years: 3

21-25 years: 0

26-30 years: 0

31-35 years: 0

36-40 years: 0

Over 40 years: 1

It seems that the average duration of consang relationships has been 1-5 years.

Was your family member your first sexual partner?

Yes: 68 (43.9%)

No: 87 (56.1%)

This means that for just under 44% of us chose to lose our virginity to a family member, where the other 56% of us had relationships with somebody else first. Since it’s quite common for siblings to experiment, this result doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Has your family member been your only sexual partner?

Yes: 21 (13.8%)

No: 131 (86.2%)

This was an expected result, most of us have tried regular relationships at some point, with a smaller but significant number of us choosing not to despite massive external pressure that we ‘should’ date in the conventional sense of the word. I would wager that without such pressure, more of us, especially non-GSA people probably wouldn’t want to ‘date’ regulars.

Have you ever shared a house together (growing up together under the same roof doesn’t count!)?

Yes: 67 (42.9%)

No: 89 (57.1%)

This is a very significant statistic, with more of us sharing a house together than I expected. I had expected the statistic to be lower for the simple reason that it’s easier to hide a relationship when you’re living separately and fewer people would ask questions. However, when living together, having a ‘room each’ and sharing to keep costs down, especially in the current economic climate, are valid explanations for nosey friends and relatives. So despite the added risk of sharing a house, almost 43% of us chose to do it.

Have you any children?

Yes, and my relative is their father/mother: 22 (14%)

Yes, with somebody who isn’t related: 42 (26.8%)

No: 93 (59.2%)

59% of us have either not had children yet, or have chosen not to have any. Of those who did have children, approximately a third of us chose to have them with a relative and two thirds of us had them with unrelated persons. In hindsight I should have asked whether any of those children had any difficulties or complications and compared that result with the average rate of complications in the general population. I will do another study to assess this and attempt to determine the true rate of disability or complications arising from incestuous reproduction. When I do, it should put the nail in the coffin for the mutant babies myth.

How would you describe your relationship?

Loving and Healthy: 111 (72.5%)

Loving but sometimes Dysfunctional: 35 (22.9%)

A nightmare at times: 7 (4.6%)

This is very good news, with over 70% of us being in loving and healthy relationships, it proves conclusively that consanguinamory is NOT by default abusive or unhealthy. actually it is loving and healthy MOST OF THE TIME with some people having problems some of the time, and a small number having major problems. This is mirroring what you would expect to see in any other type of relationship.

How do you feel about being consanguinamorous?

I’m comfortable with it and wouldn’t change it even if I could: 128 (82.1%)

I’m okay about it but it would have been easier if I wasn’t: 24 (15.4%)

I wish I wasn’t because people aren’t meant to feel like this towards family members: 4 (2.6%)

Again, this is excellent news. It means that despite societal brainwashing, all the hate poured onto us, over 80% of us are comfortable with our identity and orientation. Most of the rest of us still feel okay about being what we are, but are less comfortable mostly due to external pressure to be ‘normal’. A small number of us have been unable to shake off society’s brainwashing and thus cannot feel comfortable with that we are. It is these people who we need to help the most.

Do you ever feel ashamed of your sexuality?

Yes, often: 2 (1.3%)

Yes, Sometimes: 20 (12.7%)

Yes, occasionally: 20 (12.7%)

Never: 116 (73.4%)

This is remarkably encouraging and again shows how comfortable we are with who we are. That said, there is still a long way to go, no person should ever have to feel ashamed because of their orientation, and it’s something we have to work on to get everyone feeling good and confident about their identity. Shame should be on our oppressors, not on us!

Do you fear being caught?

No, we’re too careful: 39 (29.3%)

Yes, Occasionally: 38 (57.7%)

Yes, All the time: 24 (15.6%)

We’ve actually been caught: 33 (21.4%)

This worries me somewhat, that so many people have been caught, especially given the legal ramifications that could arise if the wrong person found out. Maybe there is an overall feeling that ‘it won’t happen to us’ going on with some people, and these are the ones likely to slip up and get caught. As a community we need to be vigilant in the current climate until we get the laws changed at least. I believe we have much work to do in this area and I cannot stress enough how careful we need to be. It’s not right or fair for sure, but it’s something we have to do I’m afraid.

Do you feel that there is anything wrong with being consanguinamorous?

No: 134 (85.4%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 21 (13.4%)

Yes, it’s not normal: 2 (1.3%)

Another very encouraging result. Again it speaks to our comfort level with our identity, and the majority KNOW that there is nothing wrong with them. There is still work to be done for sure, but this shows how we as a people are heading in the right direction with how we regard ourselves as a minority group.

Do you ever have fears that you might be some kind of pervert?

No, I know I’m not: 111 (70.3%)

Not normally, but I get occasional bouts of self-doubt: 33 (20.9%)

Yes, sometimes: 13 (8.2%)

I feel that way all the time: 1 (0.6%)

Again, generally encouraging, but this does show how some of the brainwashing is getting through. Tell people often enough that they’re perverts and some of them might start to believe it. We’re doing incredibly well in such a hostile world, but I still feel we need to do more to ensure that NOBODY thinks that they’re perverted just because of who they love.

Do you ever feel that you may be coercing your partner simply because you’re related?

No, I know I’m not: 133 (85.3%)

Occasionally: 18 (11.5%)

Sometimes: 5 (3.2%)

All the time: 0

I included this question and the following one because there is a perception in society that we must be coercing our relatives or being coerced. Not only is that a ridiculous assertion, but it’s harmful because it leads to some people subconsciously accepting it as true and thereby not accepting themselves.

This is an extremely encouraging result yet again, proving that most of us have by now realized that what society says about us is completely off-base with the reality. That so many people in perfectly healthy relationships are even occasionally feeling this way shows the power of subconscious programming at work, and it’s something we must work on as a community to ensure that people aren’t feeling like this.

Do you ever feel that your partner might be coercing you without either of you realizing?

No, I’d realize if I was being: 137 (89%)

Occasionally: 10 (6.5%)

Sometimes: 6 (3.9%)

All the time: 1 (0.6%)

Wow, what a victory this result is, nearly 9 out of 10 of us know with certainty that we aren’t being coerced. Final nail in the coffin for those who accuse us of manipulating our relatives or being manipulated by them. Don’t you just love these myth-busting results?

What’s your take on society’s attitude towards consanguinamory?

It’s bigoted, irrational and hateful: 59 (38.1%)

They only hate us because they don’t understand us yet: 50 (32.3%)

I can see some of their points, but I think their reactions are pretty extreme: 45 (29%)

I wish they weren’t, but I think they may be right: 1 (0.6%)

So, the most common result is that it’s bigoted, irrational and hateful, and the second most common acknowledging that much of the hate is due to us not being understood yet. It’s a proven fact again and again throughout history, people who aren’t understood are often marginalized and hated… and this is EXACTLY what has happened to us.

Do you think that the law in all countries should be changed to allow consanguinamorous relationships and marriage?

Definitely yes: 122 (77.2%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 33 (20.9%)

No, that could be a bad idea: 3 (1.9%)

This goes to show how much we want our freedom and equal rights. And you know what, we have every right to be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other group of consenting adults. This isn’t a big ask, it’s just asking to be treated the same as everyone else. Our demands are simple, and they are morally right.

That some people aren’t sure is likely down to the fact that they’re feeling some level of discomfort within themselves about their identity and are still questioning whether it makes them ‘wrong’ in some way.

Have you ever suffered from any of the following problems as a result of persecution or fear of persecution (click all that apply)?

Panic Attacks: 16 (6.9%)

Anxiety: 72 (31.2%)

Mood swings: 31 (13.4%)

Depression: 25 (15.2%)

Nightmares: 16 (6.9%)

Vivid and disturbing daydreams depicting your worst fears: 20 (8.7%)

Insomnia: 30 (13%)

Suicidal thoughts: 11 (4.8%)

Number of people who skipped this question: 69 (43.4%)

Number of people who answered: 90 (56.6%)

Number of people who experienced more than one of these difficulties: 52 (57.8% of those with any kind of difficulty)

If anything highlighted the harm that prejudice and persecution does to people, THIS is it! It saddens me no end that so many people are suffering like this despite feeling okay about being what they are. Actually, it makes me so mad, so angry at society for putting this kind of pressure on innocent people. That 4.8% have suicidal thoughts as a result of either fearing persecution or actually being persecuted is very worrying.

You know, it goes to show how important it is to have contact with other consang people, to really be there for each other and offer a shoulder to cry on when things get tough. We NEED each other, to lend each other our strength, our advice, our time. This is what it means to be a persecuted minority in the world. It’s very important that we’re there for each other, often it’s the case that only another consang is able to help and REALLY get it and understand.

In general, do you feel that there is enough information out there on the internet about consanguinamory?

No, not by a long shot: 85 (54.5%)

Not Quite, but there is more than there was so it’s improving: 67 (42.9%)

Yes, there is: 4 (2.6%)

I asked this primarily because I wanted to gauge how people perceived the amount of information presently available and if by and large people feel that they needed more. From these results it seems that we DO need to do more, perhaps a LOT more.

Do you feel that the current blogs provide relevant and useful resources for people struggling with their sexuality?

Yes, it’s very useful: 89 (57.1%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 60 (38.5%)

No, not at all: 7 (4.5%)

It seems that by and large we’re reaching people at least to some degree, and quite a few to a large degree, however it does indicate that more needs to be done in this area. We as community leaders are listening and we will respond to the results of this survey to ensure that this improves.

Do you think that the blogs portray an accurate picture of what it’s like to be in a consanguine relationship?

Very Much so: 64 (41.3%)

Sort of: 85 (54.8%)

No, not at all accurate: 6 (3.9%)

So by and large we’re presenting ourselves accurately, at least somewhat. However I think there must be something that we’re missing here. Maybe some people are having experiences which are not often talked about or we’ve just not covered some issues that need covering. If this is the case then I would urge any of the readers to get in touch with one of us and tell us what it is that we need to write about. It’s important that we cover issues from all angles and from all parts of the community. Our e-mail addresses are all available on our websites and we’re all open to letters, questions and requests from our readership.

What is your views on ‘incest porn’?

It’s insulting and degrading: 19 (12.1%)

I watch them but I can understand why some people get upset: 43 (27.4%)

I watch them and can’t see what the problem is: 59 (37.6%)

I don’t have an opinion because I don’t watch them: 36 (22.9%)

As expected, most of us have seen at least some incest porn, for those who have been around incest communities for a long time (especially non-GSA people) have likely seen some whether we wanted to or not. A smaller but significant number of us find it insulting and degrading, where a larger number watch it but understand why some people get upset. Incest porn contains usually a ridiculous number of overdone cliches, and shows very little character development and extremely unlikely scenarios (such as seeing a relative naked and/or masturbating, and then they have sex… and boy hasn’t that scenario inspired a lot of fake posts on the r/incest Reddit, and historically most other forums) This isn’t exclusive to incest porn it’s something that happens in porn in general. It is after all made to get people turned on, and it doesn’t surprise me that so many of us watch it because I feel that a lot of people will watch porn which aligns with their orientation.

Most of us can’t see a problem with the porn, and that’s probably because it’s just fantasy, even some regulars don’t mind watching for that very reason! That nearly 23% of us don’t watch it is likely because they’re probably not inclined to watching porn in a more general sense, not everyone wants to watch it or feels the need to watch it.

Would you ever join a non-porn forum like Kindred Spirits?

Yes, I’m a member already: 66 (42.3%)

I might: 77 (49.4%)

No, forums aren’t my thing: 13 (8.3%)

It’s encouraging that most people are either members currently or are at least open to the idea of joining. I can appreciate though that some people just aren’t open to the idea, forums aren’t for everyone after all, different people prefer to communicate in different ways.

Would you ever join the ‘I Support Full Marriage Equality’ Facebook group?

Yes, I’m already a member: 32 (20.6%)

I might, but I would have to create a fake name for it first: 64 (41.3%)

No, I don’t trust social media: 59 (38.1%)

This doesn’t surprise me at all. There is a perception, and not altogether unfounded, that Facebook is in league with government snoops. While such snooping has been sold to the public as a counter terrorism measure for catching potential jihadists, unfortunately it’s morphed by and large into mass surveillance. While it’s important to put things into perspective and realize that government has a finite amount of resources for surveillance and that it can’t possibly monitor every person all the time, I can fully understand and appreciate why this puts people off reaching out to us on such a platform even when using a fake name. It is illegal for most of us to be in these relationships and for that very reason I can see why the surveillance can be seen as a massive issue for us.

Which Blog is your favourite?

Full Marriage Equality: 73 (39.2%)

The Final Manifesto: 16 (8.6%)

Consanguinamory Blog: 59 (31.7%)

Lilys Gardener: 22 (11.8%)

Other: 16 (8.6%)

This is interesting, Keiths blog is the most popular, which is to be expected because he has been around the longest. That my blog is the second most popular has surprised me, I’ve not been at it for anywhere near as long and my writing style is quite different to Keiths. The Final Manifesto would likely have got higher ratings if he had been around more, but he was unable to be due to other commitments in the offline world, so if I were him I wouldn’t be too disappointed, his ratings will improve as he becomes more available. Cristinas blog netted a decent result, she doesn’t write as much but what she does produce is of high quality and usually very important.

Would you consider doing any online activism for the cause yourself?

No, it’s too risky: 75 (48.7%)

Yes, as long as I can protect myself from state snooping: 65 (42.2%)

I’m already doing it: 14 (9.1%)

With the state snooping issue I am not surprised that so many people are discouraged from getting involved. That over 9% of us are in some way involved in activism for us is a promising sign, it shows determination and strength of character to do what is necessary despite the obvious and unavoidable risks. Not every act of activism needs to be as bold as setting up a blog and becoming a prominent figure in the community, that’s not for everyone, I get that. But minds are changed one by one, and even as little as joining in an online debate or responding to ignorant and hateful posts can be considered activism.

Do you think that the online activism is going to make enough of a difference in the world?

Absolutely yes, you guys are doing a great job: 27 (17.4%)

I’d like to think so, I’m quietly hopeful: 84 (54.2%)

I doubt it, but good on you for trying: 39 (29.2%)

No, It’s a lost cause: 5 (3.2%)

This shows that the mood is generally optimistic, and that people are putting their faith in us as leaders to make the change possible. That’s a good sign. I’m not surprised though that some people think it won’t make a difference, we’ve been a downtrodden and horrendously misunderstood minority for so long and the prejudice is so deeply engrained that it’s impossible to shift. That said, how it is for us right now, is how it was for gays less than 100 years ago, look at how far they’ve come. If they can do it, then so can we! We ARE standing up for our rights at long last, we will reach hearts and minds the world over. We ARE the change.

Which topics do you think we need to cover more about?

Relationship advice: 68 (19.8%)

Legal issues: 67 (19.5%)

How to avoid getting caught: 36 (10.5%)

Dispelling Myths: 80 (23.3%)

Tackling Prejudice: 57 (16.6%)

I think you’ve got all bases well covered pretty well: 36 (10.5%)

This is such a good spread that it shows that we probably need to do a bit more on all of these topics. I do however feel that avoiding getting caught is probably a bigger issue than our readers believe that it is, considering how over 20% of us actually get caught! We definitely need to pad out our legal issues too, as currently we’re thinner on that than we should be.

What did you think of this survey?

It’s good, you should get plenty of good information from it: 135 (87.1%)

It’s good, but it was too long: 12 (7.7%)

I can’t see the relevance of the questions: 6 (3.9%)

I was bored by the end: 2 (1.3%)

So, overall people had a positive experience filling out the survey, that’s good news for me because I do plan to do more of them. The next ones I will do will be shorter and more focused on specific areas instead of being a massive survey like this one which was just intended to collect general information. Hopefully now, those who didn’t see the relevance of the questions will see the relevance now.

Overall conclusions and notes:

I’m really glad that so many people are comfortable with their orientation and that they’ve been able to be so despite the odds being stacked so heavily against us. We’re an amazing, strong and vibrant people, and the results of this survey prove that. The unnecessary suffering caused by our persecution must stop, because the persecution must stop, we deserve better and we will not rest until that happens.

I’d also like to thank everyone who took part for making this possible, it’s been an interesting analysis and I hope that the results are going to go a long way towards dispelling some of the myths about consanguinamorous people.

Jane Doe

Consanguinamory Study now CLOSED

The Consaguinamory Study is now closed having been run for one year. There has been 164 responses in total, which is a larger sample size than I expected, so thanks to all those of you who participated in the study. I will be publishing the results within the next few days once my analysis of the data is complete. After that point my usual posting habits will resume 🙂

When is it safe to let my guard down?

This is a very pertinent question for most of our people, for the simple reason that revealing ones identity to the wrong person could be potentially catastrophic. While the very safest option would be to never give out any real-world details, in some instances it may be appropriate or even desirable to do so.

So, when can we trust? Difficult to answer definitively, but I think we should run by this checklist before deciding to open up to somebody or not:

  1. How long have you had an online friendship with this person? Obviously it’s different sharing personal data with someone you’ve known for months than somebody you pretty much just met. I’d advise erring on the side of caution, and not sharing any such information with people until you know them well enough. Depending on how much you communicate, it may be a matter of months, or it may not be for years.
  2. How much have they revealed about themselves? If you’ve been chatting for a while then you should know a great deal about them. If they aren’t forthcoming about themselves then this may indicate a red flag. Genuine friendships go two ways.
  3. Has this person ever asked you for identifiable information out of the blue? If so this is a red flag, the person may well be a cop.
  4. Has this person asked for ‘pics’ [of a sexual nature or depicting nudity] out of the blue? If so then this person is extremely likely to be a fetishist, so if you’re looking for an offline friend in the community who really understands… this isn’t it.
  5. What sort of vibe do you get from them? Don’t disclose anything to anyone you suspect of being a spy or a possible pervert. While gut instinct is not 100% accurate, it’s often reliable and you should trust it when it senses danger.
  6. Have you had any video chats with the person? If you have, you’ll be able to tell more about them than just writing on a screen, and you’ll have more of an inclination as to whether or not they are the type of person you would want to reveal any personal info to.
  7. Why are you thinking about sharing such information? Do you plan on meeting this person offline?

This list covers when you shouldn’t reveal your information to another person online, but I think we need to talk about journalists as well. Journalists are duty bound to keep private their sources details, HOWEVER, this duty can be overturned by courts who may subpoena the information from a journalist against their will. Such a journalist would likely go to prison for refusing to answer the demands of such a subpoena. This puts him in the impossible position of either keeping his honor and integrity intact, or obeying a court order. For this reason, if you do choose to share your story with a journalist, do as I do, do it on an anonymous basis only. Not only does this protect you, but the journalist as well. He can’t be subpoenaed for information he doesn’t have in the first place. You’ll discover that most journalists who work for a company will be unable to meet these requirements because of the contractual constraints put upon them by their employers. However, many independent journalists are far more flexible in this regard, and these are the ones to work with.

There is another category of person with which I would operate on the exact same basis as a journalist, and that is anyone doing studies on us. It is very possible to answer questionnaires and even write about your circumstances in detail without having to provide any real world information. To anyone conducting a study, it should be the information that you’re going to be providing that is important rather than the identity of the participants. Again, NOT giving out such info protects both yourself, and the person doing the study.

All in all I think most of this is just applying a bit of common sense and caution. It’s a system which allows you to share info with others when it’s safe but at the same time to protect yourself. Whatever you choose to do, stay safe out there.

Patience (for talking with those who don’t accept us) – By Rainy

Rainy posted this at Kindred Spirits, with her permission I’ve reposted it here.
Many people in my life see changing others like “chiseling statues from stones”. But people aren’t stone, we’re flesh and blood. Using a chisel & hammer doesn’t change us, it harms us. People say “you can’t force someone to change”. And you can’t.

But, we can help people change themselves.Genuine change doesn’t happen overnight. People won’t if they’re not ready – and some never are. We can’t force a captain to change course, but we can be a lighthouse in the darkness. The rest is up to them.


Know Yourself
Ignorance is like a dark cave. If we don’t truly know ourselves, we can become as lost in it as those we guide. Our judgment becomes obscured by buried feelings, false conclusions we were taught and internalised, and personality aspects we never explored. We become vulnerable to uncaring people who perceive that which we’ve hidden from ourselves, and who won’t hesitate in harmfully using their knowledge. Knowing yourself can be scary, because our faults aren’t pretty and accepting them isn’t easy. But, if we don’t accept them, we can’t address them nor truly love ourselves for who we are. They don’t disappear, and self-ignorance becomes one of them.
My approach is:
* Remember I’m not as bad – or good – as anyone says I am. Or, if you prefer, “Memento Mori”.
* Reflect (but not dwell) on my past & motives. Why did or didn’t I do certain things? My past gives context to my present.
* Remind myself “no one’s perfect, I am as deserving of love & understanding as other people”.
* Imagine I’m observing a stranger, who’s really me in disguise. How do I feel about this stranger and her behaviour? Can I say “I accept & love you for who you are” to that same stranger? If I can’t, I’ve a problem, because I can’t run from myself.
* List my virtues & vices. Vices are often virtues which have fallen from grace.
* List my likes & dislikes, so I know I’m not tabula rasa. Blank slates don’t have opinions. I don’t need an opinion on everyone, and I’m sure not everyone wants to hear them, but I like knowing where I stand & what I enjoy.
* Talk to others about self-acceptance, especially if I’m having trouble. Sometimes a stranger can see what I can’t.
* Practice self-honesty by confronting what I fear about myself (if this is scary, that’s okay; you’re ready when you’re ready). My fears may or may not be justified, but there’s only one way I can know for certain.

Like so many things, self-acceptance grows with time. If you already know yourself though, then…

Be Yourself
We change others by being who we are. Isn’t that something? People naturally imprint on each other, it’s a way we learn. When you’re true to yourself, people see you aren’t ashamed of who you are. We can’t “be ourselves for others”, since being yourself starts with yourself and finding dignity with yourself, not awarded by others. Dignity isn’t avoiding things “beneath our station”, but realising our station doesn’t reflect our worth as human beings. Confidence encourages acceptance, even if we’re not popular, because it says “my validation derives from the worth of my beliefs, not popularity”. The brighter we burn, the more others see this.
My approach is:
* Remind myself that, if I can imprint on others, others may imprint on me if I’m not self-aware enough.
* Stand up for what I believe in. There’s nothing wrong politeness or compromise (usually both good things), unless I’m compromising myself.
* Be honest & forthcoming about my fears, doubts, & flaws. Not everyone respects them, but everyone has them. That being said, I feel there’s nothing wrong with being private & keeping personal secrets. So, I do my best balancing both.
* Have boundaries. There’s a line others shouldn’t be allowed to cross, that’s self-respect. Saying “No” may take practice (I didn’t learn right away), but it’s not wasted effort. Self-sacrifice isn’t wrong, but if I don’t have a self in the first place, then what am I sacrificing?
* Practice speaking my mind. The internet’s a good place for this (safety in anonymity), but not the end – it’s a beginning. Balance this with thinking before speaking.
* Ask myself: What are my goals? what do I want in life? what is my PASSION? Others may have opinions regarding my limits, but only I can know my limits and learn how to exceed them!
* Find someone who I needn’t hide myself from, so I get accustomed to being who I am. Encouragement doesn’t hurt!
* Find outlets for self-expression; they aren’t limited to painting, music, writing. My ‘art’ is whatever calls to me.

Those who know us become surrounded by who we are, which is why we should…

Live By Example
When we strive for better selves, others follow. Treat others as you would wish to be treated! Be a force others aspire to! Part of our struggle is being judged with no consideration, compassion, nor tolerance. By raising the bar we not only encourage others, we dispel negative myths about who we are. Even if others don’t follow our example, we won’t have lost anything by bettering ourselves; living by example isn’t exemplary if no serious self-improvement is sought.
My approach is:
* Be responsible. Remain aware that my actions aren’t unimportant. No matter how small, others may learn from them – good and bad. No matter how small, once done they’re done forever – and raindrops make the ocean.
* Remember that, when I’m alone “no one would know”, my true character is revealed.
* Set realistic & attainable goals for self-improvement.
* Observe the virtues of others I admire; if others can learn from me, then I can learn from others. There’s nothing wrong with asking advice so long as I’m not dependent.
* Read, study, and contemplate ethical & moral questions. Not finding answers is okay, people have been asking these questions for years.
* Reward myself & others for doing good deeds & having good traits – they need not be tangible rewards. Express gratitude. If I see someone doing good deeds, say “thank you”. This positively reinforces good behaviour, and good deeds shouldn’t go unrewarded nor unnoticed. Or if you prefer, “credit where credit is due”.
* Be mindful of my actions, they may become habits (an ounce of prevention… well you know the rest).
* Put my ethics & morals into practice; if my words don’t match my actions, something’s not right.

We mustn’t forget, perfection isn’t possible. What’s possible is…

We want change, but we can’t force change. When pushed, they push back harder. We must accept and love people for who they are *without* expectations, otherwise they won’t have courage to *exceed* expectations. Acceptance gives people time for consideration without pressure. Acceptance says “no matter what you believe, we won’t mistreat you” – a powerful message for people who’re terrified that we herald civilization’s downfall. Acceptance is like planting a seed and not burying it with bricks. Part of acceptance is not disrespecting them; treat people seriously. This may not be easy, but most people won’t engage others who don’t consider their views, treat them condescendingly, or invalidate their life experience. Especially regarding name-calling, we shouldn’t begin nor reciprocate such behaviour.
My approach is:
* Give others the ‘Benefit of the Doubt’. Like saying,” could you maybe explain that further? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you.”
* Consider my past faults & flaws. No one’s without them, were’ not so different in that regard. I don’t blame myself for having made mistakes, so I shouldn’t blame others for making them too.
* Be considerate & respectful, and not condescending. If I wouldn’t like being spoken to or treated like this, then you probably wouldn’t like it either.
* Never stop trying to understand how someone thinks & why, and what their life’s been like. Our past needn’t define us, but can give context to who we are and what we do.
* Not forgetting that acceptance doesn’t mean “I don’t mind being denied my rights”, but rather “I won’t hate you for being different”.
* Identify ways in which we’re similar, and go from there. Afterwards, I consider their differences, and how I can learn from their different point of view.
* Find their attributes which are wholesome, or that I admire. Historical figures aren’t bad starting points, because sometimes proximity makes a difference.
* Never forgetting “thank goodness we don’t have to be roommates!” …unless I DO have to be roommates. Then I concentrate more on my other pointers, because it’s probably just as difficult on them as it is on me. With time, this still works for me.

If we can’t expect others to be adults, we shouldn’t join them. Instead, we can “lead the classroom”, which requires…

I’ll be especially forthcoming: patience is painful. If you’re a parent, you already know this! Regarding our opponents, patience asks us “journey with this person, who dislikes you, disagrees with you, resists truth, has no respect for you, and might never accept you” – a journey as long as it is logically labyrinthine, as some minds resemble Escher’s drawings. Patience is offering a hand every time they fall, gently presenting “another way”, but never saying “I told you so”. When your patience is tried – and it will be – take a breath, distance yourself (if not impossible). There’s nothing wrong with this. Patience grows as we exercise it; we can’t expect having much at first. We aren’t less deserving of our own patience, and we’re not any less for being human.
My approach is:
* Remind myself that impatience not only doesn’t help, but usually makes things worse. With time, patience extended becomes patience reciprocated. Impatience isn’t different.
* Keep my mind focused on my long-term goal & reward. For me, this is “helping you reach your HIGHEST potential as a human being”, to the best of my ability. What this potential may be, we can find out together.
* Distinguish between patience and idleness/apathy, as well as impatience and drive. For me, patience is “I know my current limits, I accept I’ve done all I can – for now”. Drive is “No matter how long it takes, I will find a way or I will make one”.
* Consider subjects I’m ignorant in, or when I’m not eloquent, or my inconvenient personal traits – and how others are patient with me despite all this. What seems easy for a musician may not be for a carpenter, and vice-versa.
* Not forgetting that patience doesn’t mean “I won’t resist abuse”, it means “Honest mistakes don’t deserve punishment”.
* Recognizing my emotions when I feel frustrated, so I can put emotional distance between myself and a situation. I must be careful not to avoid nor bury my feelings (repression makes things worse), but neither let them influence my temperament nor calm. And in the end, my frustrations can also lead me to a greater understanding of myself.
* Engage in patience-developing tasks, like gardening.
* Love others. Truly and deeply LOVE them, for who they are AND for their amazing limitless potential as human beings, with no expectation of reciprocity. Love them for how far they’ve already come and for where they could possibly go. For the good they’ve done, and wrongs they haven’t done. For who they’ve loved. Love for love’s sake.


Pulling weeds and plowing earth isn’t easy, but gardens don’t bloom without care, and won’t bloom quicker even if we don’t like waiting. I don’t ask this of anyone who doesn’t want to; we must be willing to do this for others as much as ourselves, if not more. I strongly feel these virtues shouldn’t be pursued as “Ends justifying Means”, but as ends themselves. That we shouldn’t accept or be patient with others expecting a long-term reward, but because ALL human beings are deserving of what we’ve not been given. So, no matter what course our movement takes, we’ll have done good.

I believe understanding is love’s key; our relationships are built on preternatural understanding, and the stigmas we face stem from misunderstanding. But, my beliefs can’t speak for everyone, and my approach may not work for everyone. There are many paths in our world; this one is mine. I’m grateful for anyone who wishes to walk it with me.

When people understand “We’re not so different. We’ve the same fears. We’ve the same dreams. We want the same things in life”, I feel then and only then will we have equivalent rights – regardless of law.

Thank you for reading. I hope my words were helpful, and that you’re well.



For some of our number, discovering that we have a crush on a family member can be shocking enough, but subsequently realizing that it’s much more than that is different altogether. This article is about these discoveries about ourselves and how to make the process of discovery and self-acceptance easier.

From my observations, most people tend to go through certain stages before they come to the complete realization that they are consanguinamorous. While each persons experience is unique, these following stages seem to happen.


Observation – the ‘WTF?’ stage

This earliest stage is characterized by complete shock and confusion at realizing that we are attracted to a family member. After all, we have been told from the get go by society that only sick disgusting perverts would ever even think it… and yet here we are thinking it. Understandably this can be quite a blow to a persons self-worth and can be quite frightening to some people.

Denial – the ‘this isn’t happening’ stage

This understandable reaction to the observation leads directly on to this next stage. Where we lie to ourselves and come up with all kinds of rationalizations for why we thought what we thought. We might blame too much wine that evening, we might say we are under a lot of stress because of work and therefore not thinking clearly, or we might say it was a one off stray thought that doesn’t mean anything. We might even say that since it’s ‘never going to happen in a million years’ that we should just ignore these thoughts. We sometimes go a stage further and deny to ourselves that we even thought about it. We might say to ourselves something like ‘it isn’t him I like it was the smell of his aftershave’ or ‘it wasn’t her I like, it was the dress she was wearing’.

It’s all done to cover up the truth about what we thought and felt, even to ourselves. We go to these extraordinary lengths to deny it because it protects our self-image, who we think we are as a person. Since we have been indoctrinated to believe some extremely negative things about incest, we believe that if we deny it and lie to ourselves, then we are not associated with any of that negativity.

Cracks in the wall – The ‘I can’t deny it any more’ stage

After a period of time, if a person is still getting feelings for a family member, it becomes harder and harder to deny their real feelings to themselves. This is especially true when these feelings are triggered every time the other person is around. So then the person has a choice: deal with the feelings or go to extreme lengths to deny them (such as avoiding contact with the other person).

If somebody decides to deal with the feelings, they have to admit to themselves whole heartedly that they’re actually having them. This means that they must, at this point, admit that a part of themselves is not as they thougth it was. This aspect of self-discovery is one of the hardest; we all wear masks for different circumstances, but the hardest masks to abandon are those we never knew we wore, those we believed were the real us. So this isn’t just a surface level change of perspective, it’s something at our core which is not as we once believed it to be. This in itself can be earth shattering for some people, as they try to understand what they are while mourning the loss of the previously invisible mask.

Questions – ‘Am I really a bad person for feeling like this?’

At this stage, some of the nonsense society has forced upon us begins to fall down. We begin to realize that we’re the same person we have always been, we just know ourselves a little better now. We start to ask ourselves whether society is right about incest or whether the prejudice just comes from ignorance and fear. We start wondering how many people like us are really out there, equally alone, adrift with no rudder and no map. We question our intentions and realize that we want the same things in life as everyone else, we just want those things with a family member. We may even be so bold as to approach the one we love, especially if they have given us any signals that they might be interested. We might even quit making negative moral judgements about ourselves without examining the evidence. We might do some searches on the Internet and find the community.

Self-Acceptance – ‘I’m consang and there is nothing wrong with that’

This final stage occurs typically when people have successfully been able to exorcise all of the negative beliefs they held about incest, and instead being able to draw from their own experience and from all that they learnt through questioning. At this point, a person can be completely comfortable with their identity.

Such a transformation changes people, it makes us less judgemental of others we don’t understand, it makes us ask questions about all kinds of topics, it makes us skeptical about what we think we know, about what we hear and see. At this stage, we learn to love ourselves again, and know that our minds are truly set free. These things are of great benefit to us, as it allows us to grow as people and become better for it. We might even become angry at the world for it’s injustices, and set up blogs like this one to tell it like it is.


So, how can we make this process easier for people who come into our community who are struggling?

Actually, we can do plenty. We can offer reassurance and acceptance, we can direct them to the blogs and to Kindred Spirits. We can even ask them the questions which they should be asking themsleves. We can let them know that they are not alone, show them that these relationships can be healthy and beneficial to both parties. But the single most important thing we can do for others is to LISTEN, sometimes in the process of offloading a person can spot any flaws in their line of reasoning that they may have missed when not trying to put it into words, and being able to talk to others of similar minds tends to help anyone with any type of problem.

For those struggling with guilt: some self-help

In todays world, where we are the most hated and misunderstood of sexual minorities, it is unsurprising that so many people suffer with issues of guilt and shame, at least to some degree. It’s an issue that I have direct experience of, since for my dad it was paralysing, to the point of him breaking up with me. So if you or your other half are going through this right now, I understand, and it’s why I am writing this article.

So, in order to tackle such feelings, we have to first understand where they come from. What is it that makes people feel this way, even when the relationship is healthy and loving? I believe the big one to be internalization of societal opinions, a version of the whole ‘if everyone believes this then it must be true’ fallacy.

What exactly is being internalized which could produce guilt and shame?

Consider the below statements, these are public opinions about incest:

  • Nobody in their right mind would want to do that, therefore anyone who does must be mentally ill.
  • It’s harmful for the people involved
  • It’s harmful for the family unit and undermines the function of the family
  • It always involved manipulation, grooming or sexual abuse
  • People aren’t able to consent to their relatives
  • People who do that are perverts
  • It’s on par with bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia
  • They’ll make deformed babies
  • People who do that are retarded
  • People who do that must suck at dating/are so ugly that they can’t get dates
  • That’s just gross, anything that gross is just WRONG
  • It’s wrong because it’s illegal, and illegal because it’s wrong

Now, you and I can see that this list of popular beliefs are completely out of touch with the reality of our relationships and lives, so you might think on the surface that nobody would internalize complete horse shit like this because the logical mind would never accept such statements as true when it runs counter to ones own experiences. But as with most emotional problems, sometimes what is actually happening in the mind isn’t logical.

How does the mind accept these inaccurate statements as true?

Well, to begin with, these ideas are floating around in the cultures in which we were born into. Look at it this way, nobody had to tell you that pop music is cool, that you should wear trainers with a pair of Jeans, that you go to a job interview smartly dressed and use your best manners, that it’s polite to smile back or say hi if somebody smiles at you, that it’s rude to jump the queue at the checkout, that you should offer your guests to your home a drink of tea or coffee because it’s inhospitable not to… these things you learned because you observed the actions of others, you may have read about them in magazines or newspapers, you internalized these cultural norms as YOUR norms.

Most of the time this process of internalization is beneficial, it allows you to navigate your social environment without having to second guess yourself with each new situation. We all obey these rules and norms quite subconsciously, and for the most part, most people conform to the norms of the culture in which they are raised, that’s expected.

However, that doesn’t mean that all norms and beliefs floating around a culture are beneficial. Some of them are very harmful, and that includes the beliefs about incest (and of course, other sexual minorities involving consenting adults). Such beliefs lead to the stigmatization, and criminalization of people who felt strongly enough about each other to buck the trend. In turn, the stigma and criminalization reinforce the false beliefs on which they are founded, creating a negative feedback loop.

Since these beliefs are absorbed as if through osmosis, and they entered into the subconscious mind without the filter of rational thought, this is how people who are consang can unwittingly believe some very negative things about themselves. Most of the time, these beliefs were absorbed long before the person entered into a consang relationship. Sometimes these beliefs don’t ever come to the surface fully, in which case the affected person may experience it as a more general feeling of ‘wrongness’ just for being what they are. Other people may experience some of these feelings more directly, and they ask themselves questions like “am I a pervert?” or “what the fuck is wrong with me, I shouldn’t be feeling this?”

How can a person get rid of these unwanted feelings?

There is no quick and easy fix to this I am afraid, and the only process I know of is to fish these beliefs out from the subconscious mind into the conscious one so that they can go through the minds logical filter. This is an emotional exercise as much as an intellectual one.

In order to fish out these wrongful beliefs, one must think about the guilt that they’re experiencing, and ask ‘why do I feel that way?’ and to answer themselves honestly. They must then process their answer through the logical part of the brain, and find out whether these beliefs are true or not.

Let me make up an example so I can show you what I mean, let’s say a guy is involved with his younger sister and has been for a couple of years, neither have children and are both settled in their jobs. Say they moved in together a few months ago, their apartment is great, their relationship is great, they’re in a reasonably safe position as they’re not around others who know them as brother and sister and who could rat them out to authorities if they’re discovered. Yet despite all of this, he still feels bad about himself.

So one day he sits down and asks himself ‘why do I feel this way?’

He answers himself ‘because we had to move away from our other relatives so we wouldn’t be discovered, that’s been hard on both of us’

Why did you feel you had to do that?

Answer: Because otherwise we would be thrown in jail and publicly shamed

Why is that?

Answer: Well, it’s not normal or right is it.

What makes you say that?

Answer: Well, it’s illegal, and people find it gross so it must be perverted.

Do you think you’re a pervert?

Answer: Maybe, probably… I don’t know

Well, are you and your sister hurting anyone?

Answer: Ourselves, because we had to move away. Our family who are now denied our presence in their lives.

Is that your fault, or is it the fault of peoples reactions towards incest?

Answer:  ….

Does your relationship feel wrong to you?

Answer: No, we love each other.

Have either of you any mental health problems?

Answer: Anxiety and insomnia sometimes.

Why do you think that is?

Answer: It’s been playing on my mind a lot.

Is that your fault, or is it societys fault for not accepting couples like you?

Answer: … never thought of it that way.

So do you think you deserve to feel bad?

Answer… well not really…



Okay, I know this is a simple example I just made up off the top of my head, but you see what I mean. If you’re suffering with guilt and shame, you need to ask yourselves the right questions. Get to the root of WHY you’re feeling what you feel, so you can fish out the harmful beliefs and replace them with healthy self-supportive ones.

I’m not saying it’s easy, it isn’t. You might also experience a lot of anger during and after the process towards the world on account of what you’ve mistakenly been forced to feel. That’s NORMAL, I went through it. It shows that you’re accepting yourself as is, and have correctly rejected the false beliefs that were the cause of your problem. From here you can not only rebuild your self-esteem, but experience tremendous growth as a person. It can teach you to be less judgemental of others, and to be more compassionate and forgiving, to youself as much as to others. This is important for yourself and your relationship, your partner won’t want to see you suffering, if you’re the consang partner of somebody who is going through this, I understand your plight all too well.

But you’re not a therapist, how can you say this will work?

Because this is how I questioned myself in the early days of my relationship with my dad, it worked for me. Every now and then I’ve also helped others online by asking them these kinds of questions, and some people feel better just for having read this blog and others on the subject… I advocate it because IT WORKS.

I’d also recommend to anyone struggling, to join the community at Kindred Spirits. You can talk to other people who are going through the same things and that can help by giving you some extra perspective. You don’t have to be alone with these issues, we’re a friendly bunch and being in a mutually supportive environment helps a lot.

Nobody should have to go through this, but sadly because the world doesn’t accept us, guilt is probably going to continue to be an issue for us until we get our rights and are accepted as a normal part of life. In the meantime, those of us who can help others have a moral obligation to do so.

Addressing concerns about grooming and sexual abuse

There is an unfortunate conception in society that consensual incest is impossible because of grooming. Namely, that because of family dynamics, it would be impossible to seduce a relative without there being some form of grooming taking place. Such concerns are particularly levied against non-GSA parent/offspring couples, but some believe that grooming happens in ALL cases of incest, regardless of their kinship.

Well, obviously having been a young woman in a consensual non-GSA father/daughter relationship, I think it’s about time I dispelled the myth and explained the difference between grooming and ethical seduction, and how that can play out in a relationship. If we want to be taken seriously as a movement, if we truly want equal rights, we need to address these concerns people have and demystify our lives.

Unfair as it is, the burden is upon us to prove ourselves worthy of equality and respect. People just aren’t going to listen to our cries for equal rights if we don’t answer their objections with honesty, integrity and empathy. We need to show that we take such concerns very seriously, that we have a good understanding of the issues and that we have a high standard of ethics. If we fail this task, then the movement will fail, If we succeed, then we will get these oppressive laws overturned, helping literally MILLIONS of innocent men and women to live their lives in peace and security. All I ask at this point is that all readers, both consang and regular, listen to my words and think about them carefully.

What is grooming?

Grooming is when somebody is persuaded using an unethical manner to engage in any sexual act, especially when the groomed person is a minor or young adult with limited or no experience.

We all have the mental image of the archetypal dirty old man in an anorak giving children sweets and money in exchange for sexual favors. However, it’s not usually as simplistic nor as blatant as this mental image would suggest, and sometimes it can be very subtle, so subtle that you would question whether it’s grooming or not. I think it’s worth exploring what could be classified as grooming.

Typically, people who groom others, particularly children and young people, for their own sexual gratification use at least some of the following methods:

  1. Creating situations where he or she is going to be alone with their chosen target. Usually this is achieved by gaining the trust of others who are responsible for the protection of the target. This is done solely to gain access.
  2. Buying ‘too many’ gifts for the target, again to build up a relationship of trust and make the target feel ‘special’.
  3. Plying the target with illicit substances or alcohol, thus lowering inhibitions and making it harder for the victim to come forward about the sexual abuse.
  4. Convincing the target that it’s perfectly normal but ‘people wouldn’t understand’.
  5. Convincing the target that he or she has a responsibility or duty to make their abuser happy, and of course that means sexual favours.
  6. Using relentless persuasion over a long period of time to get the target to consent to what would otherwise be abhorrent to them.
  7. Using a play on words, like ‘You love me don’t you? This is how we show love’
  8. Making the target believe he or she is doing something wrong if he or she says no.
  9. Using the guise of ‘sex education’ to lure the target.

This can happen in all kinds of settings, it’s notoriously happened in the Catholic Church with untold numbers of altar boys being sexually molested by pedophile priests, it’s happened in schools, orphanages, foster homes, and yes, some people have become victims of their own family members. It’s not nice to think about, but it can happen and it does happen and such acts should be denounced in the strongest possible manner. If there was anything that is always wrong, in ANY kind of relationship, it’s grooming.

If the double-love bond that exists in consensual incest is the strongest and most pure bond imaginable, then grooming by a family member is the ultimate act of betrayal, worse than being betrayed by an outsider, and it should be punished accordingly.

What counts as ethical?

Well first and foremost, the same rules apply to consensual incest as apply to everyone else. Rules like these:

  1. Everyone must be over the age of consent.
  2. Everyone involved must make the decision to engage in any sexual act willingly and without duress.
  3. Everyone involved must be mentally competent to make the decision, for instance, NOT half passed out through excessive alcohol or high on illegal drugs.
  4. Flirting is okay, but no means no if the flirt is unsuccessful.
  5. Stalking and sexual harassment is not allowed.
  6. Consent is renewed for each sexual encounter, consent to sex on Tuesday doesn’t necessarily mean consent on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
  7. Consent to one sexual act doesn’t mean automatic consent to another, for instance consent to oral sex and vaginal sex doesn’t mean automatic consent to anal sex as well.

So this is simple and straightforward common sense, stuff everyone should know already. It’s what I call sexual ethics, it’s based on the morality of everyone doing what they’re comfortable with and not doing what they’re not comfortable with, and what’s more not being pressurised into doing something that they do not want to do.

Yes, that all sounds great on paper, but is that really possible within an incestuous relationship, especially parent/offspring relationships?

I understand well the concerns that people have about parent/offspring relationships, they think that because we were raised by somebody, we can never give consent without there being some kind of pressure or duress, thus violating point 2 on the above list. I can see why people might think this, most people, even as adults do not like to let their parents down or upset them. The parent/offspring dynamic doesn’t just magically vanish because you’ve hit legal age. However, what must be understood is that there is a world of difference between the relationship you had with your parents as a child is radically different to the relationship you have with them as an independent adult.

When you are a child, your parents are legally responsible for looking after you, and making decisions for you. They provide your clothes, your food, your shelter… everything. This means that when you’re a child, your parents have an enormous amount of power over you.

Contrast that to the relationship you likely have with your parents as an adult, your parents do not make decisions for you, you buy your own stuff and rent or buy your own home, you’re responsible for yourself (at least this is what SHOULD happen in a normal healthy family). Your parents are now your peers, they’re more like older friends that you sometimes ask advice from. They typically have very little if any actual power over you, although they may retain some influence on you because you respect their opinions, this is normal and natural.

The question in peoples minds is this: is the residual influence enough to render true consent impossible? Well, no, and here is why: Most people have a sufficiently strong Westermarck Effect to say no to a parent that they aren’t interested in dating, AND in a situation where the parent has made their feelings clear, the offspring now has enormous power in their hands. Since even attempting to date a family member is illegal, the offspring who isn’t interested could land their parent in jail potentially. Adult offspring are therefore far from powerless and CAN say no if they want to. If one is able to say no, then one is also able to legitimately say yes.

But what of when the offspring is consenting, how do we know that it’s for real? Well first of all, the offspring who said yes clearly don’t have much of a Westermarck Effect, if they did, the answer wouldn’t have been yes would it? It’s also pretty difficult to argue dubious consent when the offspring is the one who initiated the relationship, as happens sometimes.

But what if the offspring were groomed to accept it once the age of consent has been reached?

I’m not saying it can’t happen or never happens, and when it does it’s a terrible thing, these are the sort of abuse stories we sometimes hear about on the news. They disturb us as much as they disturb regulars, because they are disturbing, unethical and immoral.

There is a world of difference between somebody being groomed to be their parents partner, and a relationship spontaneously and naturally occurring once the offspring is old enough. Anyone who grooms their children to become a sexual partner at any age is guilty of an offence. Such grooming is a form of brainwashing and it’s never acceptable.

However, what I am saying is that incest doesn’t need to include grooming. When there are two people in the same family, who happen to be parent and offspring, who happen to both lack Westermarck and be appealing to each other because they love each others personalities and have common interests, and then they fall in love… well then that’s where consensual incest happens.

Would legalization encourage grooming?

Some of the regulars reading this article may by now be beginning to realize that it is possible for consensual incest to happen, however they may still fear that if incest were to be legalized, then it may encourage more of the grooming type of activity. I disagree here, because whether or not somebody is going to engage in grooming depends on what kind of person they are, somebody who is amoral and unethical will violate the usual high standards for acceptable behavior regardless of the legislation. For the record, grooming, sexual harassment, stalking and similar crimes would all remain crimes regardless of whether incest is legal or not.

My point is that inappropriate and harmful behaviour is already illegal, there is no need legally, or morally to discriminate against innocent incest couples in order to prosecute people who commit such offences as grooming, sexual abuse or rape. Such behaviours are very wrong regardless of whether the victim and perpetrator are related or not.

So it IS possible to make consensual incest perfectly legal, while protecting vulnerable youngsters from abuse. Actually, it is beneficial all round to do so, as it enables our community to encourage victims of sexual abuse to come forward to the authorities and bring their abusers to justice. It also allows us to show young people what healthy consanguinamory looks like versus their experiences, so that they are going to be better able to judge whether or not they’ve been a victim of grooming, a kind of reality check. This is why it’s so vital that we expose grooming for the abusive practice that it is, and encourage victims to seek help.

Concerns over sex education and it’s possible impact on young people

Some regulars may be worried that if we’re legalized, then it would lead to young people being taught about us in sex education classes. Some may even be so paranoid as to fear that we’re trying to ‘turn our young people consang’ or some other such nonsense. I can assure you, if you’re a regular reading this, that is not our intention and we wouldn’t want that. Actually, anyone attempting such would be guilty of grooming and we reject that in all it’s forms.

What we want in the classroom is simply for teens to know that we exist, and the following:

  1. If the teen has feelings for a relative, then they are understood and accepted, there is nothing wrong with them and they need bear no shame.
  2. A short term crush on a relative as a teenager doesn’t necessarily mean that their adult orientation is going to be consanguinamory.
  3. If they do turn out to be consang as an adult, there is a community out here that cares about them and will accept them.
  4. Consanguinamory isn’t something one chooses, it’s something that occurs naturally. Some people just ARE consang, in the same way that gay people do not choose to be gay, they just are.
  5. Underage sex is to be discouraged, the age of consent protects young people from grooming and sexual abuse.
  6. If it’s their parent or another older relative they’re interested in, they must wait until they’re old enough before pursuing the matter, and that it would be wrong and inappropriate for their parents to accept any advances from them (or make any advances of their own) until they’re of age.
  7. That because of the social stigma, life isn’t easy for consang people. That in many countries people are thrown in jail for it.
  8. That if they’ve been abused by a relative, they should not fear to come forward about their abuse, because abuse is always wrong and never their fault.
  9. Education about the risks of consang pregnancy: cousins 4%, 2nd degree relatives around 7%, 1st degree relatives around 9%. Give them the information which they can mull over and thus make sensible choices as adults.

What such education would be aimed at doing, is helping consang teens to understand themselves, the minority to which they belong, and helping regular teens to understand them and accept them as part of normal life. It would also underscore the difference between abuse and consent, the importance of the age of consent, and encourage any victims of sexual abuse to come forward. This is by far a better approach than ignoring the issue of consanguinamory, as currently happens. These young people need to know this information, so that they can identify attempts at grooming them, in addition to feeling more ‘normal’ if they have any consang feelings themselves. As with all sex education, it’s explaining what’s healthy and what isn’t. In an educational classroom setting, this kind of teaching will be very beneficial to these young people.

What I am advocating here is the very opposite of grooming, it’s real unbiased raw data education. Present the information to the young people and allow them to think about it for themselves. Offer empathy and understanding to those who are consang, while vehemently opposing grooming or underage sex of any kind. We are not going to corrupt their morals, we are advocating a natural continuation of existing relationship ethics by applying them to consanguinamory too.


We take the protection of young people very seriously, we take any issues surrounding consent seriously, we advocate values and morals based on ethics which empower and support individual growth whilst protecting those who need protection. We do not seek to impose ourselves on society or make others consang, nor do we seek to redefine the function or structure of the family. We seek only understanding, empathy and acceptance, we seek the same rights everyone else has. We are not to be feared, and we want to build bridges with other communities for mutual benefit and support. We hear your concerns and we will listen and address your concerns, all we ask is that others do the same for us in return. You may not agree with everything I have said here, and if you don’t then you’re welcome to debate me or ask for clarification if there is anything you don’t understand. I am approachable, and I will always give an honest answer.

Computer Security Guide (basics) by Rainy

Okay folks, this article is pertenant to our people. As we all know, computer security is paramount to many of us, to reduce the risks of state snooping, as well as being hacked and so on. So our friend Rainy has written an article with some good advice on the subject, and she has kindly allowed me to copy and paste here for everyone to see.


Last Updated: April, 2017
Hiya everyone! hope everyone is doing well today!
Okay so this is what it says on the tin: keeping snoopers out of your business! Much of this isn’t news and leans towards “stating the obvious”, but hopefully some of it is helpful. A TL;DR is included at the bottom.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert! this is not a substitute for pen-testing! my experience comes from knowing people in the business, and personal research.
The internet is a backchannel that wasn’t available for previous rights movements. So, our computer security is fairly important! including phones too, though this article focuses on computers (phone info may be added later).
Other things to consider though are analytics, surveillance, home security, and paper trails. Evidence is covered very well by Christine (Consanguinamory and the Police) and Jane Doe (the ten rules to keeping your relationship secret; No Comment). Thank you both very much for writing these articles!
First and Foremost
No security system is 100% secure, and that’s okay.
It’s all about balancing what you put in (time, money, energy), with what you get out (risk reduction, peace of mind)
Misused security systems won’t work very well.
Knowing what to expect or who might be looking for you helps.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Anonymity is the most powerful form of security.
Forethought, caution, and common sense go a looonnng way.
We can divide up into Hardware and Software attacks.
Protection against software intrusion. Have a good firewall, and preferably more than one anti-malware program (they may not always play nice but it’s like a buddy system). If you can’t afford commercial software, ZoneAlarm makes a good free one, but be careful during the install screens where ZA often offers third-party software which is intrusive (opt-out). Comodo antivirus is also highly rated, but I felt their EULA/Privacy Policy/Terms of Service was unattractive (and so haven’t personally tried it); they offer considerably more third-party software. ZoneAlarm is easy to use, and comes with optional antivirus. Comodo better accommodates advanced users, and has a sandbox feature (programs run in a sandbox generally cannot affect your computer). Both have ‘stealth’ capability (appear offline to foreign computers).
Symantec’s Norton Antivirus is highly recommended as commercial antivirus, and it’s built on a solid engine. ClamWin (AKA ClamAV engine) is reliable freeware, and can be bundled with ClamSentinel (which is a system monitor of sorts). ClamSentinel may be too ‘enthusiastic’; if used, make sure to change settings to “Report Only” and not “Quarantine”. Otherwise, it may accidentally cripple software by wrongfully identifying files as bad and then isolating them. However, ClamSentinel tediously logs even minor system file changes, which can be helpful. ClamWin can also be adjusted to work with proxies (i.e. TOR Browser), though if you’d rather not do that, you can update your virus database manually via direct download from their server.
If you can set up your antivirus to automatically scan files that are downloaded, that helps!
For the browser, Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox both perform admirably, but you have to go into the settings to optimize it for privacy. Other decent browsers are Epic and TOR (TOR is built on Firefox), though TOR may require some reading. Everything else… is best treated like someone can see everything you do.
If you can, set your browser to “Load HTTPS when possible”. HTTPS offers website authentification, whereas HTTP can’t protect your information from being intercepted & redirected.
The proxy everyone knows is TOR, and I don’t know a better one. TOR isn’t intended for multimedia, it’s really designed to keep you anonymous. There’s a popular conception that TOR is used only by criminals, but that’s not true. Activists in Saudi Arabia and China use TOR, and first-world governments do too.
A VPN (Virtual Private Network) isn’t a proxy, but isn’t bad to have either. There’s many out there, but in my experience, the free ones aren’t worth using, and commercial services (if you can afford one) aren’t always secure either. I think there are good ones, but I haven’t looked in a while.
An IP-Blocker is a program which blocks all signals originating from a specified IP. Typically, you feed it a list of IPs, like those used by federal agencies, invasive companies, and suspected attack sites. Because we can’t know all malicious IP addresses, IP-Blockers won’t stop everything. They may stop a third or some such like that. I’ve used Privoxy & Peerblocker, but that was a long time ago! I don’t know if they’ve improved or not. So, at your discretion.
For email, Proton Mail works great! requires no sign-up email, offers optional dual-password authentification, has a website which interfaces with TOR Browser, doesn’t keep records, offers two-way encryption for email, protected by Swiss Privacy Law, and has their facility in a secure location. Zoho Mail can people out of your inbox, and prevented NSA penetration some years back. However, Zoho recently changed their ‘Terms of Service’, so that files remain on their servers for 1 year after deletion. I feel they may have received pressure to do this, but regardless, I can’t recommend them for long-term use with sensitive information. I’ve heard many good things about Tutanota, but have no experience with it. Tutanota’s desirable features include end-to-end AES-256 and Open-Source code. There are also many “one-time use” email providers, who provide a temporary address for free, without asking for details.
DuckDuckGo doesn’t keep data like Google or Bing (IPs, cookies, analytics, beacons, etc.). There’s also Startpage, which is decent as well. Gibiru bills itself as a privacy-oriented search engine, but isn’t up to DuckDuckGo’s standard. DuckDuckGo’s downside is what you might expect: it’s not as efficient as Google. It will find most things you want to find, and it can find some things that Google won’t. This is the engine I used when searching for an understanding community.
There’s not as much to be said about operating systems. Most people have experience with some form of Windows, or Mac OS. A great hurdle for Windows is also its greatest boon – popularity. This broad compatibility is what makes it so widely used, but the bigger they are the more attention they receive from snoopers. So, the largest amount of malware & penetration techniques are developed for it.
A particular problem comes with Windows 8 & 10. Both systems perform extensive data mining, which generates Microsoft income via third parties. This can be mitigated by adjusting settings, but not shut down. There are home-built programs which can be installed to further restrict invasive behavior & data upload, but I’m not aware of any that stop it altogether. Microsoft gives us assurances that they protect our data, but in light of past breaches (regardless of company), this seems unlikely. Furthermore, their data mining is especially vulnerable to certain (not necessarily difficult) computer attacks.
Unfortunately, MS support for Windows 7 ceased sometime last year. That being said, I recommend using Windows 7 64-bit if possible. Around half of MS users still do, and hardware/software advanced have not rendered Windows 7 obsolete. If you need a copy of Windows 7, utilities exist for downloading legal copies from Microsoft’s servers (activation keys must be provided by you). Windows 7 can legally be made to run without such a key for roughly one year, after which it’ll still function, but not as well. If you are worried about receiving operating systems from over the internet, that’s understandable. You can verify a file’s integrity with a hash checking program (see programs list below).
If you’d rather not use Windows 7, then I recommend Windows 10 over Windows 8. While invasive, they have made considerable progress regarding built-in firewalls, and Edge Browser also offers substantial security improvements.
Feeling intrepid?
Mac OS is solid, though some of this is due to being comparatively smaller in customer base than Microsoft.
Another good choice is Linux, which comes in a (very!) wide variety of distributions, tailor-made to user bases (such as Scientific Linux). Less known malware than Mac OS, and Linux’s open-source code is fairly robust. The Linux community (and Debian in particular) is always working on new developments, so there’s no software or update shortage – though they may be unfamiliar programs to many.
Linux distributions are often not as straightforward as Mac or Windows, and some don’t have much of an interface. They do have some crossover with Windows programs, through the use of a software translation layer called WINE (Wine Is Not [an] Emulator), but while I was doing testing with them it still had a way to go and it probably still does. There’s also a piece of software called ndiswrapper (which allows use of certain Windows .dll files). Mac OS has a similar “emulation” program as well if I remember right, with similar success rate (I think it might also be WINE).
Ubuntu Linux is decent, especially version 16.04 (Xerial Xenus), and they have learned that their userbase does NOT want invasion of privacy. There’s also Tinfoil Hat Linux… if you want to go there. It does have some rather innovative features, though most are for disrupting EM sniffers & ‘Evil Maid’ attacks (when someone gets physical with your computer). Qubes Linux is also an interesting new distro, which partitions your computer into many smaller pieces. So, if invasive software gets in, it (for the most part) can’t escape its compartment.
If you feel you can’t remain in your country, then I recommend Tails Linux. Tails Linux is not for everyday use. You’d need a USB Flash Drive (2.0 or 3.0), which you install Tails on. Without getting detailed, Tails appears as a new computer every use, with a different location. You can’t save files or make permanent changes on a Tails installation, and it doesn’t run much software except for TOR Browser and a few simple things. I don’t think it’s very difficult to use, but that may just be my opinion! Tails can be carried on your person anywhere you go, since it isn’t dependent on a particular computer.
I’ve not tried Open BSD, but from what I’ve read, it’s also a very well-fortified (and stable) open-source operating system.
Beyond these, there is Solaris Trusted (Sun Microsystems), which has performed well in hackathons and corporate environments. And then XTS-400 (BAe), which isn’t really suited to the task at hand, but it is very secure and can run Linux applications too. It may not be available to the public. It’s military.
Side Note: Be careful about erasing Operating Systems from store-bought low-budget laptops! their hardware may require proprietary software that can’t be found elsewhere and can’t be backed-up. Linux’s community has been good about releasing open-source fixes for this, but that doesn’t mean they’ve covered them all.
Besides software, good protection against intrusion is “be careful what you download!”, including Flash and other net scripts which run automatically by default (can usually be turned off in browsers). These scripts aren’t often secure. Legit programs may also try working monitoring software into your computer for soooo many reasons; read their EULAs, Terms of Service, and Privacy Policies. If this is too daunting, that’s understandable. My experience tells me the longer it is, the more likely there’s something nasty in there.
Regarding software downloads, I use QuickHash. A hash is like a thumbprint; by comparing a known “Safe” hash to your hash, it proves whether a file has been tampered with or not. When comparing hashes, make sure to use SHA-256 where available; MD5 and SHA-1 are not hard to break.
Sometimes, companies won’t include notice of such software even in their legal documents. This is rare because people usually find out, resulting in legal repercussions. An example is Sony and Lenovo (Metrion in Europe), who tried this.
Also, I wouldn’t use public internet (especially public wifi) for sensitive information! some hotspots are secure, but most aren’t, and you can make a good illicit living stealing information from people who use those. This can be somewhat circumvented if you use end-to-end encryption, but if you don’t have to don’t chance it.
Oh, and set up a password on your wifi network if you use one. Direct cables would be better, and are more reliable, but aren’t always possible.
Mostly, software attacks won’t come from authorities, as they are more likely to gain knowledge of our relationships from friends, neighbors, or other family members. However, it’s still possible.
More likely would be vigilantes who don’t understand our position, random malware which lowers security performance, and opportunists who could use information for blackmail.
Hardware attacks are different and, when concerning police, more likely. If police come with a warrant, in some regions (including but not limited to the UK) this allows them to force access to digital devices (including encrypted files) in the area covered by warrant; refusal is imprisonment. At this point, it’s nice to have them really clean beforehand!
As expected, clean your temp caches, cookies (if they are allowed), history, and so on. Windows often has hidden caches, you may have to dig for these. Their location varies from version to version; google is good help for finding all that as I don’t know all the specifics for all the versions (my apologies!). There are also some good programs out there to expedite the process (CCleaner). A note to CCleaner users, my sister recently ran some tests using recovery software, and even with a multi-pass erasure, files remained. She believes CCleaner may not be erasing the Cluster Tips, though that doesn’t quite explain it. Running this test yourself with similar software should show whether a similar problem exists on other computers.
What gets deleted is still retrievable with the right software, and it isn’t hard to find nor hard to use. Installing a new operating system does not change this; old files from old systems linger on.
For this you need a wiping program. FileKiller and Eraser are good, and Eraser has a portable version (no installation required). Eraser may get stuck on 35-pass wipes, which is secure but slow… so far, no advice on fixing that!
Currently, 3 passes is solid and such data will be irretrievable, but years later we may be able to read it. So, for extra security, use 7 passes – make sure you get “Cluster Tips” (that’s a bit wordy to explain). Filekiller may not hit “Cluster Tips”, but Eraser definitely does. Both programs are freeware.
If you use a standard HDD, wiping free space permanently removes any files previously deleted but not wiped. If you use a Solid State HDD (also known as SSD), be sparing with the wipes, as that cuts down on their lifespan. Furthermore, SSDs do not need as much wiping (different data storage mechanism). This applies to thumb drives too, which use a Solid State medium. Also, wipers may not finish quickly depending on what you’re feeding the muffin monster! so don’t save it for last minute emergencies.
If you plan on donating, selling, or chucking your computer, use DBAN first. DBAN (Dariks Boot And Nuke) is a small program and easy to learn. It will take out everything short of the BIOS (UEFI on newer computers). Larger HDDs may need a day so be ready for that. DBAN requires an external medium (like a cheap thumb drive or CD) to work. It also works well if you know that your machine has been compromised by worms beyond repair; it is very reliable!
Be careful using DBAN on newer computers; some UEFIs are difficult to access, making OS reinstallation difficult. Also, be careful with laptops, as some (Acer I’m looking at you!) put proprietary fan-control software on the original OS that does not back-up when making the OS back-ups… so if you nuke it, that software’s gone for good and your fans won’t activate, rapidly leading to a burnt-out motherboard. If you’re not sure, check your model online regarding OS installations.
Aside, DBAN is good policy all around, because unwiped financial & personal information isn’t uncommon in identity theft.
If you have files you can’t erase but might incriminate you, use encryption. TrueCrypt is very good but discontinued; successors include VeraCrypt and CipherShed. I prefer VeraCrypt, as they’ve addressed TrueCrypt’s vulnerabilities. Both are backwards-compatible with TrueCrypt files. TrueCrypt is still consider “mostly secure”, and definitely better than nothing!
VeraCrypt allows you to make “fake” passwords; if authorities pressure you to open files, you enter your fake, which reveals files you’ve pre-chosen different from what you’re really hiding. VeraCrypt comes with many different algorithms, and can optionally use a “Key” file that you select.There are many other good ones, and having more than one helps (different algorithms have different weakspots), especially a small-time home-brewed crypter. Those don’t have many known exploits!
But, don’t use two encryption programs on the same file! Sometimes this can work (VeraCrypt has multi-encryption stream options) but more commonly it causes blocks to form in the files and the right analysis (that’s a bit wordy to go into) can break the file like that.
A good password, at least 8-10 characters (more the merrier), alphanumeric, is important for the encryption to work properly. If you can’t remember the password, you *can* write it down on paper (better not to store it on a computer), but in a search/seizure that won’t last. There are memory techniques for passwords, but they may not work for everyone! Oh and make sure that it has AES-256 options (most AES-256 algorithms should be secure till maybe 2020). Like wiping, encrypting/decrypting takes time. This is worth keeping in mind for options that encrypt/decrypt your entire (non-Operating System) HDD volume when you power on/off your machine. Newer processors may have dedicated subroutines for AES services, which decreases your waiting time.
Some computers feature hardware encryption. This is generally a good thing, but don’t be misled and do some reading on the model first! some use weak encryption or (more commonly) poorly-implemented strong encryption which is easily bypassed.
A log-on password isn’t bad, but this isn’t a substitute for encryption, because there are very easy ways around log-on passwords. BIOS passwords are slightly trickier, but can also be bypassed.
If you can’t be caught with encryption, wipers, or other privacy-enabling programs, there’s steganography. Like hiding stuff in plain sight, you hide one file in another by turning the target file into a pattern and sewing that into a host file so that the code can’t be discerned on a glance. Steg programs are often illegal in such places too, so you may need to erase or hide it somewhere afterwards.
Mostly, this shouldn’t be a problem, but if you’re in the UK or European Union where such laws are strong it might not be a bad idea for future consideration (better to have it and not need it than need it and be unable to access it anymore!).
Steganography’s main strength is no one knows what to look for, and so it passes under people’s noses. If you know a stegged file is on a computer, you can’t tell which one it is so you have to check everything. Besides being time consuming and really really annoying, most local precincts aren’t familiar with it.
Smaller target files steg better. Larger host files steg better.
Steganographic files *can* be detected with proper techniques, ESPECIALLY if your original file wasn’t encrypted. Encrypted files always look like noise, so you can steg them in all sorts of places without causing noticeable patterns in a host file, even when proper detection techniques are applied.
Hopefully this won’t be necessary! but seemed worth mentioning.
My sis recommends using OpenPuff. I don’t know where she found it.
If your machine is *not* ready for police inspection, but there’s one at your door, then wiping and encryption aren’t options anymore (too slow).
Really there’s not many pleasant solutions for this! There are some fancy HDDs which use physical measures to self-destruct with a command (yes it’s very James Bond, very neat stuff), but that’s not exactly affordable. Safer than they sound though. You *can* use a microwave, but it’s dangerous, may destroy your microwave, and may not render your HDD fully unreadable. Solid State devices are even more robust against EM fields.
For bets degaussing, a much more powerful electromagnet is needed. They aren’t exactly affordable either, and likely won’t destroy Solid State media or RAM/ROM. In most cases your RAM isn’t a problem since it refreshes each reboot, but there’s a small window right after shutdown where it has data on it that can still be read.
Electronic devices are pretty robust in some ways; using a hammer will keep it from working on your machine, but won’t destroy your data. They are not as fragile as they might seem either.
There are chemical solutions too, which will very effectively destroy drive and data, but they’re dangerous and I can’t recommend that to anyone without experience working with chemicals!
Also, in the United States, if police have probable cause to believe there is evidence in a house or on a machine that is under immediate threat of destruction, they can search without a warrant. Warrantless searches of computer information also include US borders (though not often because they go through a lot of people every day), where they need “reasonable suspicion” that someone is a criminal in order to take a device in for deeper analysis.
Some tower cases have built-in locks to keep someone from taking stuff out, and some flash drives are encased in a locking mechanism (a cryptex).
Overall locks shouldn’t be relied on as they won’t hold up against a warrant, and once seized, they won’t bother picking them, they’ll use industrial cutting/drilling tools. Locks will still help against RAM-removal attacks (AKA Cold Boot Attack) due to RAM’s short-lived nature… but really cold boot attacks aren’t something you see municipal police do anyway!
If you feel you still want (or need) a lock, try finding an abloy lock. They are damn near impossible to pick!
These aren’t sufficient protection against social engineering, which (hopefully) we won’t encounter.
Many good freeware programs are available on Sourceforge ( ); many are open-source, and all are put through scanning procedures to ensure they aren’t malware carriers. This isn’t perfect, people have broken into Sourceforge before, but it’s as common as any other net resource; make sure to scan your files. If you can’t find a file on Sourceforge, put its name in google and that will probably find it. Another website worth mentioning is Softpedia ( ). There may be links added later, if it is a problem! and as usual, be careful what you download.
Not all of these are necessary, but they’re helpful:
QuickHash Generates a file’s unique hashcode identifier. Can be used to ID altered files, including malware.
OpenPuff Steganographic “file hider”.
VeraCrypt Versatile encryption software. Basically next-gen TrueCrypt.
ZoneAlarm Freeware firewall, but be careful to avoid installing any third-party offers.
VirtualBox makes an “imaginary” sandbox computer on the HDD; resource demanding but useful for running tests & stuff
DBAN Dariks Boot And Nuke, for when you absolutely have to start from scratch
ClamWin clamwin is great, nice ^_^ simple, free
ClamSentinel system monitoring app, it can go a bit crazy “quarantining” things if you don’t make it relax
TheOnionRouter TOR; a proxy network. It *can* be broken, but that requires user error, integral malware, or mad dedication.
TOR Browser Works with TheOnionRouter
Eraser has a flash-drive standalone option, and very good options too
7-zip a nice versatile file-zipping program, has AES-256 options (but isn’t a dedicated encryptor)
CCleaner used to clean up “crumbs”, has some registry modification stuff too
Puppi Linux small easy CD-portable version of Linux, can serve as a boot disk
Tails Linux Flash drive installed version of Linux. Useful for absolute anonymity, when lives depend on it.
okay about home security
Avoiding break-ins is especially desirable because any reported break-ins will get police attention (not reporting may be preferable in some cases). Furthermore, if you have a landlord and live in the United States, they can grant police access to your home without a warrant, and they have little reason not to. Police conduct such searches when no one’s home.
If there are things you need but shouldn’t have, purchase a small safe. Be careful, because they aren’t all quality made! You can stash a small safe in many places. A safe requires a warrant to force an owner to open it (if they have a warrant for a house, that also counts). Laws may vary from region to region. If possible, a safe with a built-in combination lock is good, as not only can you “accidentally forget” your combination, but they’re not as flaky as digital locks, and can’t be opened as easily as keyhole locks. Also, in the US, combination locks are in a murky area right now and enjoy some degree of protection, due to the US 5th Amendment. This may not last, but it doesn’t hurt!
onto surveillance
Street surveillance, invasion of privacy or not, is not likely to be problematic. Surveillance of your home is more concerning, but also not that likely. In the United States, it requires a warrant – though some jurisdictions skirt around that. In order for direct surveillance to be useful, it’s often more effort (time, money, energy) than most are willing or able to put in, especially when there’s more pressing police cases. Spying on conversations without planting anything isn’t impossible (laser microphones; not as
strange as it sounds!), but not likely something we’d encounter.
paper trails
Mainly, digital paper trails, which can connect the dots to find out who’s doing what on the net. This isn’t too much of a problem though, again because the effort needed to make most servers comply (as well as wading through data logs) doesn’t make it very appealing! and we should be protected under freedom of speech laws (where applicable). But anyways, better if we keep personal information quiet.
Most other physical paper trails aren’t much concern either, as long as you can keep up appearances accordingly. A decade ago I had done a lot of reading on birth certificates (looking for loopholes and stuff), but it wasn’t very promising and so most of it is all foggy now.
This one can really drive people crazy! thankfully analysts don’t run with local police departments often, and when they do it’s for higher-priority cases. Federal agencies have more, but again we’re not their priority. Building a profile isn’t easy; you can quickly narrow down a location/identity quite a bit, but there’s diminishing returns. Unless someone makes critical mistakes (like posting selfies), it takes time to get profiles just right. They’re not always accurate then, either.
Could this be a concern? maybe someday, but not anytime soon. By having prudence in what we keep to ourselves, we can screen out most snoopers. Past that, exhaustive effort is required to remove patterns, and (technically) it’s not possible to remove them all.
~~*//wrapping up!\\*~~
Hopefully this isn’t too intimidating, because most of this is “worst case scenario”. This is especially true because (with some pragmatism) there’s not really a lot of physical/digital data to hide. Anonymity has drawbacks, but also has advantages, and they’re not minor.
This is my second draft. If anyone has ideas to add/improve on, questions, details, or if a topic seems superfluous, please let me know! repeated scrutiny patches up holes… in particular, paperwork isn’t my strength, that was always my sister’s expertise. There’s still a lot she could teach me about that.
As for police, most aren’t inherently bad. They are very worn-down people, and they have a job to do, and they’re mostly indifferent (or hostile) to us. They prioritize rules and law. Yes, they will bend the rules. No, we shouldn’t trust them, they are not on our side. But, they are people, and some aren’t unsympathetic to us – mostly because they would rather deal with *real* criminals.
We can’t rely on or presume them to sympathise, even if they say they do. If you must interact with an officer, treat them politely. Cooperation is unwise, but cordial refusal and a sincere apology can help smooth things out. They don’t often get to see humanity’s decent side in their work.
Once, while talking about his work, a family member (homicide investigator) said “We only catch the dumb ones”. Hearing that was disheartening, and also slightly relieving. Much of my family is very attentive to detail, very old-fashioned, and not very forgiving. My sis and I always felt a sword of damocles; a “worst case scenario” always felt plausible.
But, if we let them silence us, then they win.
Totally not going to happen.
Very much love,
Be good and stay safe out there
and that’s all she wrote!
TOO LONG, DIDN’T READ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~some stuff about security:
No security system is 100% secure
All about balancing what you put in with what you get out
If you don’t use a system right, it won’t work
If you know what to expect or who might be looking for you, it helps
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link
Anonymity is the most powerful form of security
Forethought, caution, and common sense go a looonnng way
~some useful tips:
read Jane Doe’s articles”the Ten Rules to Keeping Your Relationship Secret” and “No Comment”
read Christine’s article “Consanguinamory and the Police”
fine tune for privacy either Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, or TOR Browser
use Proton Mail
DuckDuckGo is a handy privacy-centric search engine
Be careful what you download (seriously)
keep temp files/cookies/history/etc clean
use Erasing (not ordinary deleting) with sensitive data
if you can’t erase incriminating data, encrypt it
don’t wait until the last minute to do either of these things, then it’s too late
know your local laws concerning your privacy rights and police rights
keep up appearances (this is worth repeating)
be very careful with police (this is worth repeating)
make some time to read the rest of this post
keep calm and carry on
~some handy programs:
QuickHash Generates a file’s unique hashcode identifier. Can be used to ID altered files, including malware.
OpenPuff Steganographic “file hider”.
VeraCrypt Versatile encryption software. Basically next-gen TrueCrypt.
ZoneAlarm Freeware firewall, but be careful to avoid installing any third-party offers.
VirtualBox makes an “imaginary” sandbox computer on the HDD; resource demanding but useful for running tests & stuff
DBAN Dariks Boot And Nuke, for when you absolutely have to start from scratch
ClamWin clamwin is great, nice ^_^ simple, free
ClamSentinel system monitoring app, it can go a bit crazy “quarantining” things if you don’t make it relax
TheOnionRouter TOR; a proxy network. It *can* be broken, but that requires user error, integral malware, or mad dedication.
TOR Browser Works with TheOnionRouter
Eraser has a flash-drive standalone option, and very good options too
7-zip a nice versatile file-zipping program, has AES-256 options (but isn’t a dedicated encryption program)
CCleaner used to clean up “crumbs”, has some registry modification stuff too
Puppi Linux small easy CD-portable version of Linux, can serve as a boot disk
Tails Linux Flash drive installed version of Linux. Useful for absolute anonymity, when lives depend on it.

So much ignorance…

Another day, another one for the pile of ignorant remarks. Today we focus on a short article that attacks incest in general, and father/daughter relationships specifically. Well, I take exception to that, because this woman clearly doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about, as you will soon see. Having actually been in a father/daughter relationship, I actually do. So let’s dive into the manure pile, shall we

Incest is a serious public health issue but it’s usually ignored in order to protect involved families.

Would that public health issue be the long discredited mutant babies argument by any chance?

Father and daughter incest is common in many African countries and as Allan Kimani, a counseling psychologist at Nairobi Counseling Services explains, many incest victims suffer from Stockholm Syndrome where they develop irrational empathy for their assailants.

That may be the case for sexual abuse cases where the daughter was underage or groomed, but you can’t categorize all father/daughter relationships as abusive. Many are not. Don’t believe me, click here.

“Whether the girl is a minor or an adult, consented or not, the girl remains a victim because the father has the upper hand in the illegitimate relationship”, says Kimani.

So according to this woman, a grown woman can’t consent to her father because he somehow still has power over her? That’s complete horse shit. If he has that kind of power, then he failed as a parent to raise her as an independant and functional adult.

And to suggest that a grown woman has no more power than a minor girl, is extraordianarily condescending and offensive. Of course it matters how old the woman is, is she a woman or a girl, there is a HUGE difference, women can consent, underage girls cannot. And to suggest that it doesn’t matter if she consented or not even when she is of legal age…. YES IT FUCKING WELL DOES. Either she is a grown woman with her own mind, or she is not. This is what I call weapons grade stupidity on part of the writer, she has no clue whatsoever, and it’s lazy and intellectually dishonest at best.

Also, ILLEGITIMATE relationship? There is nothing illegitimate about a consensual relationship between adults, no matter what their kinship is or is not.

Section 20 and 21 of the Sexual Offences Act stipulates that if two adults of close relation get involved in sex, the two are guilty of incest and can face a jail term of not less than ten years. Consequently, in the case of an adult daughter and the father, the two can be charged in court.

Which is outrageous. Neither of them should be charged with anything as they did nothing wrong. Banging people up for a decade for consensual sex is pretty extreme don’t you think.

Dr Kevin Wamula, a psychiatrist at Mathari Hospital points out that incest is more of a criminal than a mental illness. He however notes that in extreme cases between a father and daughter, mental evaluation is paramount. “The evaluation can determine whether any of the two is suffering from schizophrenia or any other mental illness,” he said.

Oh God, we’ve gone armchair psychologist now, have we? Incest is NOT a mental illness, it’s simply a type of relationship. Father/daughter relationships are NOT ‘extreme’, they can be really beautiful, mutually caring and loving. You can’t just chalk every instance of incest up as mental illness and you know it.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder which affects how a person thinks, feels and behaves.

It’s also completely irrelevant to the topic of consenting adults being persecuted for falling in love.

Dr. Wamula advises that should a person detect that they are sexually attracted to close relatives, they should seek either counseling or mental health services to prevent regrettable situations.

THIS makes me ANGRY. The mental health of consang people is usually fine thanks very much! People who are attracted to their relatives are NOT mentally ill, they are simply misunderstood. We do not need ‘help‘ we do not need ‘therapy’ we do not need any interference. Attitudes like this make my blood boil, and they strengthen my resolve to stamp out such bigotry and ignorance.

Scientifically, a baby conceived out of such a relationship is likely to inherit genetic defects and terminating the pregnancy would be the safer option.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Immediate family run a 9% risk of something, either major or minor going wrong. This means that 91% of babies are born free from any defect. It would be better if incest was legalized, and that such couples could get genetic counselling before deciding to have a baby, this way they can make the decision based on what’s lurking or not in their genes. For some couples it might be perfectly safe, and for others not.

I am absolutely disgusted by this article, it’s packed full of ignorance, prejudice and hate. It’s bigotted and it does not understand the issues at hand. One article at a time, we will fight with facts and with passion.