Please read URGET

No, really, that’s not a spelling error. It’s actually the title of a particilarly moronic piece of hate mail sent to Cristina last night while I was chatting with her on Facebook, which, with her permission, I have decided to cover.

I will have to cut off at some points for commentary, as within this block paragraph of doom there are no commas, full stops, or punctuation of any kind. It’s a huge run-on sentence, or should I say, rant. We all know ten year olds who can write better than this, but to hell with the terrible writing, let’s get on with the content:

You people are f****** disgusting lilysgardenercom it’s f****** wrong

She opens by expressing her disgust, uses an expletive, and then asterisks it out… which begs the question, why include swear words if you don’t have the bollocks to keep them in? This is repeated throughout the whole letter, but lets continue:

and you guys probably will go to hell for incest I’m just letting you know you can’t do that it says in the Bible so so you’re going to hell

So, it’s wrong because the Bible says so. How convincing an argument. The Bible also forbids pork and clothes made of mixed fabrics. Remember guys, you’re going to Hell if you’re wearing a cotton/polyester shirt, or if you enjoyed a nice piece of bacon every now and then. When analyzing what the Bible says, it usually pays to apply a hefty dose of common sense, especially when dealing with the ancient laws written down in Leviticus.

I wonder if she would be inclined to throw Abraham and Sarah into jail, or believes them to be burning in Hell for all eternity?… just saying. This chick doesn’t know as much about the Bible as she thinks she does. It’s not as cut and dry as she believes it to be, and if she had actually READ some of it, she would realize that.

and honestly when you have a child probably with the f****** whatever Brothers your maybe your sister maybe you’re lesbian is sick

Was that a homophobic slur? I think it was. She seems to think that Cristina is going to have a baby with her brother… or with her sister if she’s a lesbian, which according to her is sick. Um. Don’t know how to break it to her, but two women cannot procreate through having sex. As for the sentence structure here, if indeed it was intended as a complete sentence (again, it’s hard to tell because of lack of grammar) it’s pretty incoherent, and difficult to tell what specifically she intended to say.

oh you’re raping your family member and you’re going to have some f****** in breeded children so spread some in breeds around this f****** world

Rape, who the hell mentioned rape? Nobody on any site in this netword advocates for raping anyone, including family members. We ACTUALLY advocate for consenting adults who are in consanguinamorous relationships to be allowed to live their lives without being harassed or persecuted by the state, or anyone else for that matter.

If I’m reading this tirade correctly, she believes that if family members rape each other, it leads to spreading inbreeding around? What? That makes no sense at all.

and I swear to god dude you will go to hell I’m not trying to hurt your feelings but I’m trying to warn you about hell because honestly you’re going to go to help for f****** brother

Trying to warn us about hell… maybe that’s what she thinks she is doing, but in reality she is making herself look like a complete idiot. I’m sure God has better things to worry about that who is doing what with their genitals.

Also, she cannot be legitimately claiming to NOT wanting to hurt our feelings when hitting the ‘send’ button on a huge incestophobic rant with rape advocacy accusations and ‘spreading inbreeding around’. We’re not thick enough to fall for that one.

oh and encouraging all these people in the world to f*** their family members is another reason why u are going to hell

No, actually nobody encourages people to engage in incestuous activity, we simply provide support and information to people already involved, and try to raise awareness of our community. Clearly she hasn’t read a word of Cristinas site.

and not disease you made up is a f****** lie and it’s disgusting sexual attraction to your family

First off, Genetic Sexual Attraction is a genuine phenomenon. Had she bothered to google it, she would have realized that GSA is a thing, it’s not some made up ‘disease’. We don’t classify consanguinamory as a disease anyway thank you very much, it’s an orientation, asswipe.

I understand if you say yeah my family members are beautiful or something but oh I want to f*** my brother your f****** weird and yeah you’re deranged and sick

Translation: I have a strong Westermarck effect and find incest disgusting, anyone who disagrees with me is weird, sick and deranged.

Not much more to say about this except closed minded and bigoted.

and by the way I’m up playing with you if you don’t stop posting s*** about f****** family members

Playing with us? So this whole rant is a joke then? Maybe we should take it as such because nothing we’ve reviewed so far has lead us to take her seriously. Actually, me and Cristina had a bloody good laugh about it last night.

I am going to take you off this internet and throw you in jail lady for encouraging incest

Actually, she can’t do that. Freedom of speech includes expressing unpopular opinions, and again, nobody is encouraging incest, we simply provide a supportive environment for people who are or who have been involved. There is nothing illegal about anything on these websites.

and thinking you guys have the right to talk about family members and the wrong ways if you knew who my father was Lady you would never have made this website

How the hell would we know who her father is? Why should we care? If he was anyone of consequence or intelligence, he would have explained the free speech laws to her. Chances are, he works stacking shelves or flipping burgers. So, if this was an attempt to put the frighteners on us; epic fail.

my father knows about this now and he is really going to f*** your s*** up

As Cristina said in her reply e-mail: Good luck with that.

and we aren’t even from here so I mind you you might want to pack your belongings that all the incest know they need to cross the border to Mexico and go f*** themselves over there and get out of God damn America because we’re not trying to have America get f***** up by you sick m************

‘all the incest know’? Maybe ‘all the incoherence know of the writing not good’. Sorry guys, I just had to, you know. She isn’t even from America, but she wants Cristina out of America? That just doesn’t make any sense. Trying to make sense of this is causing my IQ points to be reduced by about 10.

I’m not playing with you my father is going to f****** take your website down and we’re going to blast you and sending this in on the news and you’re going to be f****** embarrassed 

She does realize that Cristina has spoken with many a journalist… right? That talking to the media (providing that it’s anonymous) doesn’t phase us, right? Well, she can try to embarrass us, but we are not embarassed by our sexuality, and nor should we be.

So here ends the rant of doom. Really, we had a good hard laugh at this one. The lame threats, the butchery of the English language, the spelling mistake in the title… none of it leads us to take this seriously. She got angry, real angry, but in the end her anger and her ranting produced the opposite of the desired effect. It does not scare us, it made us laugh.

My grade: D- Try harder next time.


Genetic Engineering and Consanguinamory

Well folks, another day, another great topic up for discussion at Kindred Spirits. This time it’s genetic engineering and it’s relevance to us as a community. After responding to the thread, I thought it deserved an article of it’s own because I hadn’t covered it yet and it’s something that could potentially be of great importance to us at some point in the future.

As we all know too well, one of the most commonly cited objections to the legalization of incest is the ‘mutant babies’ argument, namely that incest leads to disabilities and deformities in the resulting children. While most often this is not the case, and most babies born to consang parents are healthy, we must accept and acknowledge that we do bear greater risks than our regular counterparts. Therefore the choice to bear a child must be taken very carefully, ideally after genetic testing to ensure that we are fully aware of any genetic nasties which may be lurking unseen, and the risks of these abnormalities being expressed should a baby be conceived.

Like all parents, consang couples want their offspring to be as healthy as they can be, and this is where the subject of genetic engineering comes in. Now, I know that the thought of genetic engineering fills peoples heads with horrendous experiments gone wrong. It helps none that labs are creating corn crops which contain their own pesticide which kills bees, other vital insect life and field mice whilst contaminating the land, they’ve made bioluminescent pigs and cats, and even goats which produce spider silk, and probably MUCH more than that. Such things are true abominations, animal abuse, contamination of the food chain, and they make me question the sanity of those conducting these awful experiments.

However, with regards to our community, these things are far removed from the potential benefits which genetic engineering can have when the technology and science is used responsibly. Here, I am speaking of the type of genetic engineering which replaces a faulty gene with a healthy copy (one which already exists within the gene pool of the organism thus not introducing anything foreign) with the view to preventing serious and debilitating conditions which limit the quantity and quality of life. Used this way, genetic engineering should not create such a degree of moral or ethical quandry, and nor should it have significant impact on the evolution of our species.

Say we have a hypothetical brother and sister couple, they’re both young and healthy, but a genetic test reveals that they both carry arecessive ‘bad copy’ of a gene which could lead to a debilitating condition, but have a good dominant copy and so neither sibling is expressing the disease. If they chose to have a baby, there is a 25% chance that the child will express homozygous recessive ‘bad copy’ genes (meaning the child has the genetic disease), a 25% chance of homozygous healthy copy genes (the child doesn’t carry ANY copy of the bad genes), and a 50% chance of the child having heterozygous bad and healthy genes like the parents (recessive bad copy, but dominant healthy copy). So, all in all, a 75% chance that the baby will be okay, and a 25% chance that it will express the disease. Yes, I know this is a very simplistic example because many diseases are caused by more than one gene, but it’s sufficient that you get the general idea.

At this point, the couple have a choice, they could forego having children of their own and adopt one instead, she could use a sperm bank (which would make the pregnancy the same risk as for regulars), they could take their chances and hope that they get a favourable outcome, or they could ensure that their child will be healthy by using genetic engineering. If they go for this procedure, it would mean that an egg would be taken from her ovary, and he would need to provide a sperm sample. They would then choose a sperm with the ‘healthy copy’ gene to fertilize the egg, which would then be implanted into her uterus at the correct time in her monthly cycle. This would be the max that would need to be done to ensure that the baby is healthy without actually tampering with the gene pool. The child would be 100% genetically theirs, but without playing the genetic lottery. In essence, it would be a glorified test tube baby.

Morally, I see no problem in such a scenario. We’re not contaminating the gene pool with foreign genetic codes from other species, we’re not talking about designer babies and all the ethical considerations that brings, not least it’s potential impact on our evolution. We’re simply talking about disease prevention, and removing the ‘mutant babies’ argument from the table of our critics. The technology exists, and it can be used in this restricted and responsible way to prevent unnecessary suffering. It is not only our people that could benefit from it’s use, but also regulars who carry bad genes which can effect the health of their children. Remember, regular pregnancies aren’t risk free either. What about people with Huntingtons disease and stuff like that? Wouldn’t the lives of their kids be better off if they can guarantee that they’re are not going to suffer a serious degenerative condition? Of course.

It may not be such an issue right now because people object to genetic engineering for a wide range of reasons, including religious objections. However, at some point in the future, this technology will be roled out for wider medical use, and when it is, it should be used responsibly and it can be of great benefit to anyone who has concerns about the genetic health of their children. For us, it will knock ‘mutant babies’ straight off the table, further weakening the argument of our opponents. If used responsibly, this technology has the potential to do a lot of good in the world, for a lot of people. It is not a thing to be feared, it’s called progress, but like with many things, the more we know, the greater our responsibility to use such technology wisely.

Factors contributing to extreme incestophobia

I was having a conversation yesterday with Rainy, one of my close friends and colleagues, and fellow admin over at Kindred Spirits. The conversation went from current events to some peoples extreme reaction towards us. We weren’t talking about people who simply disagree with our lifestyle and who simply want incest to remain illegal (the vast majority), we were talking about people who literally want us dead (a minority within that majority).

As unpleasant as it the fact is, these people exist. But without understanding what drives such an extreme reaction, we have no hope of defeating it’s toxic effects on society and neutralizing it at source. Ideally it would be better if nobody was developing such extreme views, and this article exists to explore some options on how we may do just that.

After some theorizing, it became clear to me that there is no one single factor that is causing people to react in this way, rather it may be a convergence of several of these factors. So, let’s explore what those factors are:

An extremely strong Westermarck Effect

I believe that the Westermarck Effect exists as a kind of scale, between somebody having none at all, and people having it ramped all the way up to maximum where they feel physically nauseated at the possibility of even other people doing it. Most people are somewhere in between, where it’s strong enough that they wouldn’t engage in incestuous activity themselves and they’d prefer others didn’t but even if they do they just don’t want to hear about it because it makes them uncomfortable.

Having the Westermarck effect as a scale makes more sense to me than it being a simple ‘on’ and ‘off’ function, which in my mind would be a gross oversimplification of whats going on. So, I think that somebody having an extremely strong Westermarck Effect, while in isolation may not be enough to make somebody homicidal, may be a risk factor in predisposing them to such attitudes.

Childhood sexual abuse by a relative

While most of the population falsely associate incest with child abuse, I believe that many people can see the glaring difference between people molesting their kids and two adult relatives forming a relationship, although even then many believe that there is some kind of grooming going on, something I covered extensively in a previous essay.

That said, I think that incest and child abuse may become indistinguishable for some people who suffered psychological trauma as a result of being sexually abused by a family member. Nothing gets people more angry than being who abuse defenceless little kiddies, and for good reason, pedophiles cause horrific trauma to their victims and mentally scar them for life in many cases. Some victims are left with trust issues, and an inability to be physically intimate with others. Of course anyone who has suffered from this should seek help and counselling, and they’re deserving of sympathy.

I can fully understand why somebody who has suffered like this and then hears about an incest couple could fly into a homicidal rage because they associate it, falsely, with the abuse that they went through. Not all victims of sexual abuse are going to feel that way, and some may even oppose legislation against consenting adults in their name… but I can and do understand why some people would become so angry.


While this should be an irrelevance to the law, it certainly isn’t an irrelevance in many peoples lives. Religion does shape how people think and feel, and the more religious a person is, the more likely they are to hold extreme views about sexuality. Belonging to a conservative sect of a religion is more likely to make a person hold extreme positions about alternative sexuality than somebody from a more libertarian or liberal sect. A good indicator is the attitude that a religion holds towards homosexuality, it’s a pretty safe bet that those preaching hellfire and damnation to gay people are likely even more hostile to incest.

In some religions there is room for interpretation. At first glance, the Bible appears to be against incest, and yet Abraham and his sister Sarah were clearly a consang couple and God not only approved their union, but blessed them with a child after Sarah has believed herself to be barren.

In other religions there is far less room for interpretation. Islamic Sharia law for instance insists that gay people be thrown from high places, and that people guilty of incest be stoned to death after being flogged.

So while religion may be an irrelevance to many people, it isn’t irrelevant when talking about peoples attitudes towards sexuality in general or about us in particular. Some people, those of the ‘true believer’ mentality, are more prone to getting whipped up into a homicidal frenzy than those who may simply celebrate their holidays and that’s about it.


While it’s certainly true that most psychopaths are able to go about their business without murdering anyone (they realize it’s in their own best interests to adhere to the law) it can be a factor in some people getting homicidal when they see or hear about something that they REALLY don’t like. I say this because most people are able to have empathy for others, this acts as a social and moral barrier for us and prevents us from harming others. With a psychopath, this barrier is severely impaired, because he or she would have no capacity for remorse upon hurting others. It’s not difficult to see how psychopathy would be a risk factor.

Degree of mental programming

Everyone is programmed to an extent, but some more than others. Programming happens when something is planted in the subconscious mind, perhaps without that person ever being aware of it. Most people have undergone anti-incest programming in the form of ‘eww gross’ reactions of other people when the subject has been mentioned, stories in the news about incest couples being depraved and perverted, and of course we’re the butt of many a joke. All of this underscored by the Westermarck Effect I mentioned earlier and you’ve got the recipe for a pretty solid negative response to incest.

That said, like in all other things, it is a scale. Some have been programmed more than others. If they’ve ever seen somebody else fly into a homicidal rage when they heard about incest, they will be more likely to think that this is the appropriate course of action. Not consciously of course, but subconsciously. So they can fly into a fit of rage without ever knowing why or even stopping to question their reaction.

What can be done to reduce these risks to our safety?

In the short term remaining hidden is a no-brainer, but in the long term that is not a viable option if we want full equality, and things aren’t going to change any if we stay hidden and afraid. Needless to say we need to minimize if possible the risk factors.

Now, it seems at a glance that all of these things are beyond our control, and to a certain degree they are. That said, that doesn’t mean that we cannot work to lessen the impact that these have. As I have said previously, we’re not as powerless as we sometimes believe ourselves to be. Far from it, we can have some influence in the world if we use our heads.

Our main objective is to improve our image. We have a major PR problem, and most of it is down to ignorance of the issues, and peoples incorrect perceptions about us. We can and should continue to get our stories out there as much as possible without putting ourselves at risk. For now that means running with independants as much as humanly possible, as they will not always expect us to provide verification, as the mainstream media does. Even if an independant does ask for verification at first, quite often it’s possible to negotiate and they may publish your story anyway even with no verification.

It’s an education issue mostly. Most people are hoplessly ill informed about consensual incest, because it doesn’t effect them and they rely on ‘common knowledge’. When that common knowledge is lacking, it leads to all kinds of misconceptions, and sometimes to people being demonized, as we are. Some of this is down to fear, aleviate the ignorance and we aleviate the fear.

By doing this we can actually get to a point where somebody who has an extremely high Westermarck effect can be disgusted without feeling the need to fly into a rage. We can get to the point where the sexual abuse victim no longer associates his or her abuse with consenting adults who are just a bit different from the norm. We can appeal to more moderate and inclusive versions of each religion so that eventually their attitudes towards us become the dominant ones. We can’t do anything about the fact that some people have psychopathy, but we can at least make it socially unacceptable to kill us and make it in their best interests not to harm us. Lastly, by fighting the misconceptions and ignorance, we leave less and less room for the programming of peoples minds.

You see, this is not an unwinnable war, it’s just going to be a long one. This is deeply engrained into the public psyche, and this level of prejudice is not going to be quick or easy to remove, but if we keep putting one foot in front of the other, we will get there in the end, no matter how long the journey. But no matter how long that journey is, no matter what obstacles we face, as long as we have each other, and enough faith to keep going, we WILL get there. That I promise you.

When a normally good media policy isn’t good for us

As we all know, the media are responsible for reporting the news. This means that they have a responsibility to the public to ensure that the news that they are reporting is accurate to the best of their knowledge. Usually this means that they need to verify the stories that they report to be sure of the accuracy and authenticity of the content.

Usually this is a very good thing, it ensures that public opinion is not unduly swayed on serious issues because of something that isn’t actually true. Say for instance, the issue was whether or not to go to war with a country, a journalist had damned best make sure that the info he has at his disposal is accurate before dispensing it into an article which is then potentially acted upon by the government.

So yes, when it is a matter of life and death, this policy is extremely important and I do not blame media bosses entirely for employing it across the board. That said, there should be some exceptions, exceptions which would allow the reporting of stories which should be heard, but cannot be because of extreme risk both to the people who would need to provide verification, and to the journalists who would run those stories.

Let me back up here just a little to explain further. About a week ago, our friend Cristina contacted me to explain that a journalist from The Sun had interviewed her, and was interested in interviewing me. Naturally, I jumped at the chance to get my story out there for others, and I friended her on Facebook. My impressions were that of a nice lady who wanted to discover the truth about us and report it as such, so she asked me her questions about my relationship with my dad amongst other thing. I completed the interview with her, and then she asked me if she could verify my story….. oh dear. Needless to say, because what I did is currently against the law, and also because I’ve too much to lose, and that the movement cannot afford to lose a central player like myself, I could for the most obvious reasons supply this information to her.

In essence, expecting incestuous people to supply verification is actually expecting a criminal to supply proof of his or her crime, even though it shouldn’t even be a crime! Sorry, but it isn’t going to happen. Info like this can be easily subpoenaed by the courts. I do not blame this journalist, actually I quite like her, she seems very nice and she just wanted to present the information she discovered in a fair and neutral way. She spoke with her editor about it and it is he who said no, without verification the story cannot go ahead.

This is NOT an isolated incident by any means. My experience with The Sun is the same as with VICE journalists who have from time to time approached me (except with those, we didn’t even get as far as an interview). It is a general policy endemic to the media industry, which as I say, is usually important in ensuring that what is being reported is in fact correct.

What I would like to say to the media bosses is this: Would YOU, in our shoes, give away your indentity, location or other personal info? I doubt it. Can you understand WHY we have to be as secretive as we are? Our stories are there for you, we’ll tell you about it, just please, don’t expect us to provide proof of our ‘crime’, we won’t do it for security reasons. We’re a secretive people for good reason, we risk prison time for coming out. In the public sphere we cannot just be what we are, that’s the problem. You media bosses could consider being allies to us, allowing our stories to go forth without verification. We don’t even mind if you TELL the public that our stories are unverifed, explaining why they cannot be. That way, the reader gets to make up their own mind on whether or not the stories are true. In this way, you’re not decieving your readers, you’re giving our stories the public viewing they deserve, and boosting your own ratings. I’d say that would be a win-win scenario for everybody involved.

Don’t get me wrong, I realise that for all the media know, I could be some super sad loser guy stuck in his mothers basement living on cheetohs, mashed potato and beer. However, EVEN IF THAT WERE TRUE, which it isn’t, would that invalidate EVERYTHING I have said on this website? Would it invalidate the numerous people who have contacted me over this last year and a half? Of course not. Would it invalidate the arguments I have put forth for the legalization if incest? No, it would not.

I would say to any media bosses, the real story here is greater than my story, or Cristinas story, or anyone elses. It is the story of an oppressed minority group screaming out for acceptance and understanding. It is the story of a people who are just learning about themselves because their community is so new. It is the story of a subculture that is in it’s infancy and still forming. It is the story is a new youthful energy which desires to make an impression, correcting the horrific mistakes of it’s forebearers. It is the energy of a people who have remained silent about their oppression for far too long, a people who have patiently waited it out for the opportunity to speak. I, as one of the community leaders, am acting here in the capacity of an ambassador to the regulars. I am asking that our voice, our energy, our morals, our vibe to be heard and considered. We as a people have so much to offer to the world, if only given a chance.

I ask the media bosses to take all of this into consideration, because even if they do choose to ignore this plea, that the independant media is covering us periodically, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. The mainstream risks becoming out of step, and thus out of touch with the most recent developements. Love will win out in the end, and news outlets who do not recognize that exceptions must be made in some cases will become doomed to bypass some of the most interesting stories of our time.

Incestuous couples have been with humanity for as long as our species have existed. Some parts of the ancient world accepted us, it is only in relatively modern history that we have been oppressed completely. We’re asking that our voice be heard so that we can be re-integrated into society.

This is just heartless

Well here is, once again, another sad story of a couple being persecuted by the state, this time in Hong Kong. Let’s dive into the latest batch of drivel and see what we find:

The District Court sentenced a man on Monday to two years in prison for having sex with his 19-year-old biological daughter between 2009 and 2015. The daughter was handed a jail term of 14 months, suspended for two years.

As we always point out in these cases. that’s insane. It’s a heartless waste of taxpayers money that should have been spent catching actual criminals, you know, people who rape, murder and pillage. Instead those precious resources are being spent persecuting this couple for no other reason than the state disaproves of it. That’s called fascism, and it aint pretty.

The 58-year-old father – referred to as C.P.K to protect his identity – and his daughter, now 26, pleaded guilty earlier to two counts of incest.

Which they shouldn’t have had to for one simple reason: it should never have been in the courtroom in the first place.

Handing down the sentence, Judge Timothy Casewell said incest is a taboo in society as it damages trust among family members, HK01 reported.

No, it doesn’t. There is only a breach of trust if it is a case of rape, sexual abuse or child molestation. Clearly that isn’t the case here, she was a grown woman of 19 years of age, quite old enough to decide for herself… actually was same age I was when I entered a relationship with my dad. The judge here is way off base.

Counsel for the man pleaded in mitigation that imprisonment as a deterrent would not be beneficial to the pair, on the basis that their love was “misplaced” and the daughter was legally an adult during the time of the offence.

The only ‘misplaced’ thing I see is their analysis of the situation. Love is love, deal with it. Consenting adults are consenting adults, it should make no difference to the law whether they are related or not.

The court heard that the daughter offered to have sex with her father, then 51-year-old, after seeing him looking depressed. They continued the relationship and filmed their encounters.

Their relationship came to light in 2015 after the woman’s younger brother found a memory card containing six video clips of their sexual acts. The brother reported it to police out of fear that his sister was being sexually assaulted. He later dropped out of school as he felt affected by the discovery.

Note to anybody reading this: If you’re in a relationship with a relative and you’re tempted to make a little home made porn…. just don’t. It can be used as evidence if it’s ever discovered.

Now let’s consider the brother for a moment. He, like most of society was programmed to believe that incest is inherently bad, dysfunctional and sick. He made the assumption that most people given that programming would make, he assumed his sister was being abused. So he made the report to the cops probably believing he was protecting his sister. Misguided yes, but very understandable. As to his dropping out of school, he likely does not want to face others who might taunt him over his sister and their dad… and isn’t that a sad state of affairs. The problem is the incestophobia, not this couple.

The man admitted to police that he had had sex with his daughter twice, while the daughter said she willingly had sex with her father. She said no monetary exchange was involved and she felt happy each time after the acts.

Here we go, she was a willing participant, she felt happy about it. What more can I say other than prosecuting them is stupid, heartless, and completely unneccessary. Who has benefited from this prosecution? The state? No, it costs money to sue and imprison people. The brother? No, he’s been emotionally harmed by this as well. Society? No, because consanguinamorous couples do not harm society. Finally, the couple themselves have been harmed by this prosecution and the imprisonment of the father.

Under the Crimes Ordinance, the offence of incest carries a maximum penalty of 14 years behind bars.

Something that needs to change, there should never be a penalty attached to consensual sex of any kind. It’s ridiculous. The taboo surrounding incest creates harm, it puts barriers up so that people who really are being abused are not going to want to come forward. This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it needs to be changed, and the sooner the better.

The impact of discrimination on mental health

I feel that this essay is probably long overdue, especially considering the results of the consanguinamory study. I was unsurprised, but still very saddened by the sheer number of people who are suffering mental health difficulties as a direct result of either fearing persecution, or actually being persecuted. Of all the people who took the survey, 56.6% reported having suffered at least one troubling mental health issue because of this, and 57.8% of those who reported a problem reported more than one problem. Needless to say this number is unacceptably, intolerably high.

As expected, anxiety (31.2% of us) and depression (15.2%) were the main problems people were experiencing. Now, I know some of our critics will be nodding their heads saying ‘see, look at your own stats, isn’t that proof that these relationships are unhealthy’… and my answer would be no, not at all. If those people could for one moment put themselves into the shoes of the average consang couple. You can’t tell others the true nature of your relationship because it might land you in jail, you have to watch your every move, you do not have the same legal rights as everyone else, the world makes horrible assumptions about people just like you. Imagine going through all that on top of the usual ups and downs which ordinarily happen within a relationship. Imagine the fear caused by bigotry and persecution, all because of who you love. If you can imagine all that, then understanding how this leads to anxiety and depression should be easy. If people are subjected to high levels of stress caused by their environment for prolonged periods of time, then it can and does lead to these sorts of problems.

What I found most troubling, was the 4.2% of us who had suicidal thoughts. This is something that people just don’t talk about, how discrimination can literally destroy people, and in extreme cases it can lead to people taking their own lives believing that it’s the only way out in a world that just refuses to accept them as they are. This may sound like a tiny percentage, but it’s about one in 21 suffering like this. In real terms, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of needless and senseless suffering. If any critics reading this have a shred of empathy, they should realize that although they may disagree with what we are, we’re human beings and their attitudes are what leads to the discrimination that hurts people, even to this extent. I doubt any decent human being would actually want to be part of a problem which can be deadly. When 4.2% of any minority has had thoughts about killing themselves, something must be done to tackle the problem. This is why I am writing this essay, to appeal to peoples common decency and empathy.

Of course, all this stress can cause a whole raft of problems for people, even when it’s not so extreme. 13% are suffering with insomnia, no doubt lying awake at night worrying about the possibility of discrimination if they’re discovered. Of course, sleep deprivation in itself can be hazardous to health in many ways, it can lead to depression, weakened immune system and impair a persons ability to function normally simply because they’re too tired to think straight.

Then there are those who get to sleep just fine, but because they are strugging to cope with the fear of discrimination, and likely push it to the back of their minds while they’re awake, it all comes out in nightmares. 8.7% of us suffer from these nightmares depicting our worst case scenarios. The mind has to process our fears and emotions somehow, and dreams are one way in which it does so.

6.9% of us suffer from panic attacks. Again, this is happening to people who try their best to hold in their emotions, but after bottling it up to a large degree the mind and body must let go of all that negativity somehow. Sometimes this is expressed as a panic attack. This is yet another way in which negativity and discrimination is impacting peoples health.

Finally, there is the 13.4% of us who suffer from mood swings. When under constant stress and living in fear, this isn’t surprising at all. In fact it’s surprising that the numbers aren’t bigger. Who doesn’t get jumpy when under pressure?

So, what can we do to combat this?

As is often the case there is no simple or quick solutions. In the long term, our plans are to remove the negativity by campaigning for equality. This will be of benefit to consang people for centuries to come, but it doesn’t do anything to help those who are suffering RIGHT NOW.

This in mind, I want every single person who is going through these problems to know that this community is here for you. We’re not therapists nor are we doctors, but we’re your fellow human beings, and we may be able to help in some small ways, even if just as a listening ear. Please, join our forum, Kindred Spirits, contact with others who are going through the same issues is of great benefit to people, you know, just being around others who understand. We have to stick together and be there for each other.

On another note there are some things you can do to help reduce your stress levels and thus decrease the risk of things getting worse:

  1. Take some time to participate in leisure activities – Anything which helps you relax or enjoy yourself. You might for instance go for a long walk to clear your head, get some other form of exercise, go our for a nice meal…etc
  2. Move someplace where nobody knows you, thus instantly decreasing the risk of being caught.
  3. Learn meditation or relaxation techniques.
  4. Take up a hobby which involves making nice things.
  5. Reduce consumption of caffeine and alcohol.
  6. Take a long bath and let the water relax you.
  7. Make your home the most relaxing space possible.
  8. Empower yourself by recognising that it’s others with the problem, NOT YOU.
  9. Make sure you eat healthily.

This isn’t an exclusive list of course, there are probably many more things you can do, but you get the general idea. Make sure you take the time to look after yourself, your physical and mental well being are important, especially for us because of the long term stress we have to endure.


The statistics show the extent of suffering caused by discrimination and fear of discrimination. These numbers should be considered hard proof that equal rights are needed, because discrimination ruins peoples health by exposing them to intolerable levels of stress and anguish. Just because some of us are coping okay does not make discrimination okay, because it’s far from okay, and we as a community are NOT willing to put up with it any more. We’ve been oppressed for centuries, we’re barely understood by the mainstream and a whole raft of myths are out there about us. It’s time these things came to an end… for our health at the very least.

While all the above is true, there are also things we can do to help ourselves and each other, and we should do them. We can take some responsibility for looking after ourselves by doing whatever is possible to reduce the risk of being caught, and also learning how to switch off and relax. It’s not always easy of course, and we all fall short at times and let stress get the better of us. But surely failing sometimes is better than letting ourselves be blown around in the wind feeling powerless to overcome our emotions and fears. All of us are afraid sometimes, and considering what we’re up against, it’s not at all surprising. But, it’s the difference between you controlling your fear and your fear controlling you… and that can mean the difference between coping and not coping.

Ultimately, know this: we ARE going to win this battle, no matter how long it takes. We as a community DO NOT deserve to be discriminated against, and we DO NOT deserve to suffer these mental health issues as a result of that discrimination. Our battle is a righteous one, and a very winnable one because nothing our critics have thus far put forth has actually stood up to scrutiny. Fallacies, repeating myths, and prejudice do not form legitimate arguments. Our opponents may seem strong, and they sure are numerous, but their arguments against equality hold about as much water as a paper box. So every time you feel you’re getting stressed, imagine that paper box being filled with water, and collapsing just as quickly.

Consanguinamorous Reproduction Study

Well folks, I said I was going to be doing more studies, and this is the next one in what will eventually be a long series. I have chosen to tackle this subject first because it’s one of the first things that our critics go for when objecting to making our relationships legal.

It’s completely anonymous, like the last study, and it is going to run for one year (longer if I have not collected enough data by then). This survey is only for people who have had a child through consanguinamory.

Unlike with the other study, which was just to gain some basic demographics, answers to all questions are required on this one. I realize that some of the questions may seem probing, but they’re necessary to gain a complete picture of pregnancy and reproduction via consanguinamory.

If you wish to take part in this study please CLICK HERE and just follow the instructions in the survey. Thank you in advance for your participation 🙂

Getting Caught and how to avoid it

Since doing the consanguinamory study, I have noticed that there are a LOT of topics that we need to cover more about. However this is one of the most pressing in my opinion. My study revealed that 21.4% of us are getting caught by others. This is clearly an unnacceptably high number, especially since most of us live in countries where it is illegal, and in some of those countries the penalty for incest is life in prison (the kind of sentence you’d hope would be reserved for murderers, rapists and child molesters).

People, we need to think about this, seriously think about our security. Getting caught is something that many of us get compacent about, we think ‘oh, we’ll never get caught, that’s something that happens to other people’…. but it can, and my study shows that it often does. We simply cannot afford such complacentcy, not in the current climate. All of us are potentially at risk, and this is something we have to recognize.

There are two main ways of getting caught:

Being Caught in the act

This is the worst possible way for an outsider to discover your relationship, as not only are they confronted by the fact that you are together in that way, but they also got an eyeful of something that they didn’t want to see and may in fact disgust them. Being caught in the act leaves you at their mercy, at a time when they’re likely to feel confused, angry, distressed, and possibly grossed out. If this happens you are relying soley on damage control efforts to at least get the other person not to report you to the police or tell anyone else.

Incriminating evidence

This isn’t much better to be honest, but at least the regular who discovered you didn’t get an eyeful. The sort of evidence I’m talking about is the undeniable kind, stuff like sexts being visible on your phone and then leaving said phone alone in the company of a known nosey friend or relative (okay they shouldn’t invade your privacy, but some people just don’t respect privacy), used condoms carelessly left visible in the bathroom bin when they could have come from nobody else…etc. These things are perfectly avoidable with a bit of planning and protocols in place. Again, you’re left entirely at the mercy of the person who discovered these things.

How do I avoid getting caught?

Many things on this list will seem pretty obvious, but be honest with yourself as you read them, how many of these rules are YOU breaking:

  • Do not leave any evidence of your relationship on any electronic devices. This means you have to wipe off any sexts after you’ve responded to them, lest any nosey friends or relatives need to borrow your phone for any reason.
  • Do not leave any evidence of your relationship on social media. Yes, this does mean you have to refrain from constantly talking about your other half, but really, if you don’t want to arouse suspicion, then don’t post stuff on your status that might indicate that you’re more than family.
  • Make sure you’re not seen. This is very obvious, but some people don’t take proper precautions in the heat of the moment, especially not after a good night out. If you’ve got a lock on your door, use it. Don’t be noisy if you’re sharing a house with others, don’t have sex outdoors or in the car…etc. I know it might seem like I’m being boring and preaching to the choir, but it’s extremely important and I feel the need to say these things.
  • Be careful how you act around each other in public. I know it can be hard, but switch to being in ‘family mode’ when these others are around. So no holding hands, cuddling up to each other, and definitely no snogging. This rule applies most obviously when you’re around others who know you as family, but also in situations where it is possible to run into others who know you as family too, say for instance if you’re out together in the local town center. The rule can however be dropped if you’re someplace where NOBODY knows you, like if you go away on holiday to another country.
  • If you share a house together make sure that you have a ‘room each’ for show at least, and tell people that you’re sharing to keep costs down. It’s a believable lie and nobody will question it.
  • Avoid telling your children (I’m assuming here that they’re minors, not adult children), kids have a way of letting the truth slip, and at a tender age it is most unfair to burden them with your secret. But if they already know, you MUST stress on them the need to keep it quiet and explain to them that some people wouldn’t approve of the relationship and it could get you into trouble.
  • Seems obvious, but tell nobody if at all possible. The fewer people know, the safer you are.

This is a pretty good checklist for a starting point, think about what you’re doing and do not succumb to complatentcy, it CAN happen, to any of us.

I’ve already been caught, what should I do?

If despite your best attempts to keep your relationship a secret, you’ve been discovered anyway, there are a few things you can do.

First of all: DON’T PANIC. Not everyone is against us, and even some of those who disapprove may realize that reporting you is not the answer.

Encourage the person who has found you out to to ask questions, and answer those questions honestly. This gives the other person the chance to gain some understanding and possibly become more supportive. Remember, this person is probably worried that one of you is some kind of ‘victim’, this is your chance to show that this isn’t the case, and that your relationship is perfectly healthy. Such reassurance can make the difference between you being reported or not.

At this stage it’s about damage control at first, but more than that, it’s about showing that person that there isn’t anything wrong with you both, or your relationship. It is showing them that love is love, and that all love deserves equality. If this approach is taken, it could turn their shock into their support. Of course, don’t get preachy about it, just let them see you for who you really are.

I repeat, the best way to stay safe is to not get caught in the first place, but if you are, let them ask questions, answer them honestly and GIVE THEM TIME to digest the information.

One day this will cease to be an issue, but for now it is one, and a pretty large one in my opinion. Stay safe out there people 🙂

The Consanguinamory Study Analysis

Well guys, here it is, the long awaited results of my study:

General Information

The purpose of the study was to gain some insight into the composition and attitudes of the consanguinamory community, in addition to exploring the extent of suffering caused by incestophobic attitudes in society.

The questions were presented in multiple choice format on Surveyplanet, and the participants were able to choose more than one answer on some questions where this was applicable. Participants were also able to skip questions that did not apply to them, or they did not wish to answer.

The survey was online for one year, and generated 164 responses, 5 of which were ‘blank’ surveys where the participant filled out no questions. I can only speculate that those viewers may simply have been curious, but as no questions were answered by them I have chosen to exclude these ‘blanks’ from the overall data pool. So my working sample size is 159 people, the majority of which answered most if not all of the questions.

What’s your approximate age?

Under 25s: 30 (18.9%)

26 – 35: 43 (27%)

36 – 45: 31 (19.5%)

46 – 55: 27 (17%)

56 – 65: 17 (10.7%)

66 – 75: 8 (5%)

75 or older: 3 (1.9%)

This is pretty much what I expected to see, a pretty reasonable spread of people from all ages, but less so from older people. I don’t think that this is indicative of the older generation having less consang people within it (human nature after all does not vary much if at all between the generations), only of the fact that a smaller percentage of them are inclined towards using modern technology and the internet, this would reduce the probability of an older person who has been involved finding my survey.

All participants answered this question.

What’s your gender?

Male: 104 (65.8%)

Female: 54 (34.2%)

Intersex: 0

This result surprised me somewhat, I was expecting a roughly 50:50 split of men and women. I do not know why this result has happened, but I can speculate that it is possible that more women were cautious about taking the survey than men, or that more of my readers are male. In any case it’s interesting to think about.

Only one participant did not answer this question.

How would you define your sexuality?

Heterosexual: 107

Homosexual: 5

Bisexual: 36

Pansexual: 6

Monogamous 30

Polyamorous: 30

Being a multiple choice question, people could pick more than one option. I did this purposefully to allow people the opportunity to define themselves more fully.

As expected, the majority of people were heterosexual and a small number were homosexual, which is exactly what we see in the general population. What did surprise me was the number of bisexuals, I do not know if this is unique to our community, or if bisexuality really is this common in the general population but perhaps less talked about. Many bisexuals are assumed heterosexual if they are in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex.

I was expecting also a greater number of people to specify if they were monogamous or polyamorous. As it turns out less than half specified and of those that did both options got 30 hits apiece. I do not know if this 50:50 split by those who chose one or the other is significant at this point or not. It is assumed that most people are monogamous, but perhaps that is just that, an assumption.

In hindsight, I probably should have put the straight/bi//pan/gay options in a separate question to the mono-poly options, thus enticing more people to specify mono or poly. I will bear this in mind for any further surveys and perhaps gain a more accurate picture.

One participant did not answer this question.

How would you describe your approximate income?

Always Skint: 10

Just Enough: 40

Comfortable: 53

Enough and a few luxuries: 30

Well off: 22

Very Wealthy: 2

Again this is what I expected, for most people to have enough to get by or a little bit more with a few people being either at the poorer or the richer end of the scale. I deliberately kept the question vague because I didn’t want the participants to feel like I was prying too much (income after all is a personal question). But this serves it’s purpose, it demonstrates that most of us have enough money and that some of us are able to enjoy a lifestyle that is more than just meeting out basic needs.

Two participants did not answer the question.

What’s your level of education?

Dropped out of High School: 3 (1.9%)

Finished High School with some Qualifications: 39 (24.7%)

Went to College: 44 (27.8%)

Went to University: 72 (45.6%)

This one will be a shocker to the outside world, but it is no surprise to me. Contrary to societal stereotyping of us as backward hillbillies, and general losers in life, this demonstrates that we are in fact an intelligent group of people, with over 73% of us continuing our education after completing high school. I really wish I knew where the ridiculous stereotype of us as thick people came from in the first place, and now we have some hard evidence saying otherwise.

One participant did not answer this question.

Is incest legal in your country?

Yes: 13

No: 136

Don’t know: 9

This is pretty much what I expected since most participants are from Westernised countries and incest is illegal in most of those. I do however find it pretty concerning that some people who have been involved don’t know whether or not they’re breaking the law (and thus would need to hide). If anything, this means that we as the leaders of the consanguinamory community need to do more to raise awareness of our legal status in different locations. Every single person involved in consanguinamory needs to know whether they need to hide if they wish to remain where they are (some may have not choice due to existing obligations), and where to go to if they do not wish a life of hiding. This is a matter of staying safe.

One participant did not answer this question.

Is your consanguinamorous relationship current or in the past?

Current: 91

Past: 58

As expected, a greater number of people currently in relationships took part in the study. This was not a great surprise as many people whose relationships end leave the community, sometimes for good. However, for some people, it can be good to be around others who understand even if you’re no longer in a consanguinamorous relationship.

Eleven participants did not answer this question.

Was it GSA or Non-GSA?

GSA: 43 (27.4%)

Non-GSA: 114 (72.6%)

You know, I had a debate about this with The Final Manifesto when I first returned to the community. The main reason I included this question was to settle the debate, I was quite curious. He had theorized that non-GSA would be the most common, and at the time, I disagreed with him because I was expecting a 50:50 split for for GSA to be more common (based on the fact that GSA people tend to be more prominent and vocal within the community, especially on Facebook). However, this result proves conclusively that he was right and I wasn’t!

11 people did not answer the question.

Now, using these statistics, I am going to calculate an estimate of a previously UNKNOWN statistic… the percentage of people who are consanguinamorous. And to do this, we need some other external statistics.

Adoption rate: In the USA it is 2.5% according to THIS SOURCE. I see no reason that this rate would vary much for other countries.

Reunion rate: I was unable to find a statistic on this, but for the purposes of this approximation, I will assume 50%. I can always do a recalculation of this turns out at some later time to be way off base. When the real statistic is known, I will recalculate to update the estimate anyway, because a calculation using a known statistic is going to be more accurate than one in which assumptions have been made to make the calculation possible.

GSA rate: It is known that 50% of reunited relatives experience GSA.

So let’s calculate the percentage of people in GSA relationships first:

2.5% / 2 / 2 = 0.625%

To calculate non-GSA:

0.625%/27.4 x 72.6 = 1.66%

Now add both figures together to provide the total number:

1.66% + 0.625% = 2.28%

Although this is at this point a very speculative calculation, it does fall within the ballpark figure I was expecting of between 1% and 5%. I had previously estimated that the consanguinamory rate to be within this range simply because all other non-standard orientations exist within the range and I saw no reason why we would be any different. While this calculation provides an educated estimate only (seeing that the reunion rate is currently unknown and 50% is pure guesswork on my part, meaning that is lies in the middle of the possible maximum and minimum values), it proves my hypothesis correct. It also proves right something that Keith said ‘everyone knows somebody involved’… now if you know 50 people (and I guarantee that you do unless you’re some kind of recluse who spends 90% of their life in the basement hooked to video games or something), then you know somebody who is consanguinamorous. If you know 100 people then statistically, you know two! Bottom line: incest is NOT a rare occurrence, not by a long shot. It is simply well hidden and not talked about. We can now safely say this with some statistical backing.

What kind of relationship was it?

Brother/Sister: 77 (48%)

Brother/Brother: 3 (2%)

Sister/Sister: 9 (6%)

Mother/Son: 37 (23%)

Mother/Daughter: 3 (2%)

Father/Daughter: 26 (16%)

Father/Son: 2 (1%)

Aunt/Nephew: 5 (3%)

Aunt/Niece: 1 (1%)

Uncle/Niece: 2 (1%)

Uncle/Nephew: 5 (3%)

Cousins (m/f): 32 (20%)

Cousins (m/m): 0

Cousins (f/f): 1 (1%)

Other: 10 (6%)

Consolidation stats:

Siblings total: 89 (56%)

Maternal total: 40 (25%)

Paternal total: 28 (18%)

Parent/Offspring total: 68 (43%)

Aunts total: 6 (4%)

Uncles total: 7 (4%)

Cousins total: 33 (21%)

This question allowed multiple choice answers, as some people had experienced more than one consanguinamorous relationship. This allowed the participants to list the ones that they had been involved in.

These results throw up some expected results, but also some surprising ones. It will probably come as no shock that relationships between siblings is by far the most common form that consanguinamory takes. I was expecting Maternal and Paternal relationships to occur at roughly the same rate, however this study has revealed that Mother/Son relationships are the most frequently occurring of all the cross generational possibilities. I was also expecting consanguinamory with aunts and uncles to be more common than it actually is.

The ‘Other’ option was for people involved with step relatives, adopted relatives, and in laws where they were legally family but there was no actual blood relation.

After entering the data into the spreadsheet, I got this information from it:

Total number of people involved in ONE consanguinamorous relationship: 123 (77%)

Total number involved in MULTIPLE consanguinamorous relationships: 36 (23%)

Total number involved with FIRST DEGREE relatives: 141 (89%)

Total number involved with SECOND DEGREE relatives: 13 (8%)

Total number involved with THIRD DEGREE relatives: 30 (19%)

Now. Just out of interest, let’s see how many GSA vs NON-GSA persons have been involved with more than one consanguinamorous relationship.

GSA: 6 (14% of GSA)

Non-GSA: 32 (28% of non-GSA)

Very interesting. Non-GSA people are twice as likely to experience more than one type of consanguinamory. I believe that this is some evidence to support our claim that consanguinamory is an orientation. Non-GSA people, lacking Westermarck altogether, may or may not have a genetic component, until scientific research is done in this area we will not know. However, these statistics would indicate that consanguinamorous orientation may run in families since 28% have had more than one consang relationship, vs only 14% of GSA persons. Most GSA people DO experience Westermarck effect, but for the adoptive rather than their biological families.

What type of relationship was it?

Spousal: 64 (43.2%)

Family with Benefits: 84 (56.8%)

I can’t really say I am particularly surprised by this result, mostly because of the prejudice people would hide more easily as being family with benefits than they would as being a couple. Let’s see what else I can discover.

GSA Spousal: 25 (58%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 15 (35%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 40 (35%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 67 (59%)

Remainder of each did not specify relationship type.

This is truly a remarkable result. It shows that GSA people are more likely than non-GSA to form spousal type relationships, where non-GSA are more likely to opt for a family with benefits arrangement. While this isn’t much of a surprise to me, what IS a surprise is how GSA and non-GSA are almost perfect mirrors in terms of these percentages. Whether this is in any way significant I do not know.

Siblings Spousal: 37 (42%)

Siblings Family with Benefits: 50 (56%)

Parent/Offspring Spousal: 24 (35%)

Parent/Offspring Family with Benefits: 30 (44%)

Aunts and Uncles Spousal: 3 (23%)

Aunts and Uncles Family with Benefits: 8 (61%)

Cousins Spousal: 6 (18%)

Cousins Family with Benefits: 18 (55%)

This set of data is particularly interesting, it shows that consang people are more likely to form spousal relationships with immediate relatives than they are more distant relatives.

Lets see how many of each option were GSA and Non-GSA to see if we can spot a pattern. For the purposes of this small section, any relationships where the participant did not include either whether it was GSA or non-GSA, spousal or family with benefits, or siblings/parent-offspring…etc is excluded. Percentages are calculated as per those who made the specifications. So the results may not be 100% accurate, although I would consider them strong indicators of what’s going on.


GSA Spousal: 15 (58%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 11 (42%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 20 (32%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 42 (68%)

Almost twice the percentage of GSA siblings get into a spousal relationship than non-GSA siblings. This is interesting.

Spousal Total: 15+20=35 (40%)

Family with Benefits Total: 11+42=53 (60%)


GSA Spousal: 8 ( 62%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 5 (38%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 15 (38%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 24 (62%)

You know, this is uncanny, there is the GSA/Non-GSA perfect mirror AGAIN when you look at the percentages involved. Does it mean anything? I don’t know. All I can tell you for sure is that GSA people are more likely to form spousal relationships with their parents than non-GSA.

If we go by total percentages:

Spousal Total: 15+8=23 (44%)

Family with Benefits Total: 5+24=29 (56%)

Aunts and Uncles

GSA Spousal: 0

GSA Family with Benefits: 0

Non-GSA Spousal: 3 (25%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 9 (75%)

I find it interesting that there was no instances of GSA relationships involved, I have no idea why this may be, other than the fact that the sample size was too small perhaps. That said, of the non-GSA relationships, 75% of them were family with benefits and only 25% were Spousal.


GSA Spousal: 2 (33.3%)

GSA Family with Benefits: 4 (66.6%)

Non-GSA Spousal: 5 (23%)

Non-GSA Family with Benefits: 17 (77%)

So let’s look at the totals:

Spousal total: 7 (25%)

Family with Benefits total: 21 (75%)

So this is exactly the same totals we are getting from Aunts and Uncles.


Consang people are as a whole more likely to form spousal relationships with their immediate relatives than they are with somebody more distantly related. Parent/offspring relationships have the greatest percentages of spousal relationships, particularly when those relationships are GSA. The greatest percentage of family with benefits relationships are non-GSA second and third degree relatives.

How Long were you together for?

Under a year: 42

1-5 years: 51

6-10 years: 22

11-15 years: 17

16-20 years: 13

21-25 years: 1

26-30 years: 3

31-35 years: 1

36-40 years: 0

Over 40 years: 2

These stats may look abysmal for the prospects of long term relationships, HOWEVER, remember how few older people took the study! So the outlook may not be as bleak as these statistics suggest.

Let’s take a quick look to see how long relationships which were in the past have lasted:

Under a year: 13

1-5 years: 27

6-10 years: 6

11-15 years: 4

16-20 years: 3

21-25 years: 0

26-30 years: 0

31-35 years: 0

36-40 years: 0

Over 40 years: 1

It seems that the average duration of consang relationships has been 1-5 years.

Was your family member your first sexual partner?

Yes: 68 (43.9%)

No: 87 (56.1%)

This means that for just under 44% of us chose to lose our virginity to a family member, where the other 56% of us had relationships with somebody else first. Since it’s quite common for siblings to experiment, this result doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Has your family member been your only sexual partner?

Yes: 21 (13.8%)

No: 131 (86.2%)

This was an expected result, most of us have tried regular relationships at some point, with a smaller but significant number of us choosing not to despite massive external pressure that we ‘should’ date in the conventional sense of the word. I would wager that without such pressure, more of us, especially non-GSA people probably wouldn’t want to ‘date’ regulars.

Have you ever shared a house together (growing up together under the same roof doesn’t count!)?

Yes: 67 (42.9%)

No: 89 (57.1%)

This is a very significant statistic, with more of us sharing a house together than I expected. I had expected the statistic to be lower for the simple reason that it’s easier to hide a relationship when you’re living separately and fewer people would ask questions. However, when living together, having a ‘room each’ and sharing to keep costs down, especially in the current economic climate, are valid explanations for nosey friends and relatives. So despite the added risk of sharing a house, almost 43% of us chose to do it.

Have you any children?

Yes, and my relative is their father/mother: 22 (14%)

Yes, with somebody who isn’t related: 42 (26.8%)

No: 93 (59.2%)

59% of us have either not had children yet, or have chosen not to have any. Of those who did have children, approximately a third of us chose to have them with a relative and two thirds of us had them with unrelated persons. In hindsight I should have asked whether any of those children had any difficulties or complications and compared that result with the average rate of complications in the general population. I will do another study to assess this and attempt to determine the true rate of disability or complications arising from incestuous reproduction. When I do, it should put the nail in the coffin for the mutant babies myth.

How would you describe your relationship?

Loving and Healthy: 111 (72.5%)

Loving but sometimes Dysfunctional: 35 (22.9%)

A nightmare at times: 7 (4.6%)

This is very good news, with over 70% of us being in loving and healthy relationships, it proves conclusively that consanguinamory is NOT by default abusive or unhealthy. actually it is loving and healthy MOST OF THE TIME with some people having problems some of the time, and a small number having major problems. This is mirroring what you would expect to see in any other type of relationship.

How do you feel about being consanguinamorous?

I’m comfortable with it and wouldn’t change it even if I could: 128 (82.1%)

I’m okay about it but it would have been easier if I wasn’t: 24 (15.4%)

I wish I wasn’t because people aren’t meant to feel like this towards family members: 4 (2.6%)

Again, this is excellent news. It means that despite societal brainwashing, all the hate poured onto us, over 80% of us are comfortable with our identity and orientation. Most of the rest of us still feel okay about being what we are, but are less comfortable mostly due to external pressure to be ‘normal’. A small number of us have been unable to shake off society’s brainwashing and thus cannot feel comfortable with that we are. It is these people who we need to help the most.

Do you ever feel ashamed of your sexuality?

Yes, often: 2 (1.3%)

Yes, Sometimes: 20 (12.7%)

Yes, occasionally: 20 (12.7%)

Never: 116 (73.4%)

This is remarkably encouraging and again shows how comfortable we are with who we are. That said, there is still a long way to go, no person should ever have to feel ashamed because of their orientation, and it’s something we have to work on to get everyone feeling good and confident about their identity. Shame should be on our oppressors, not on us!

Do you fear being caught?

No, we’re too careful: 39 (29.3%)

Yes, Occasionally: 38 (57.7%)

Yes, All the time: 24 (15.6%)

We’ve actually been caught: 33 (21.4%)

This worries me somewhat, that so many people have been caught, especially given the legal ramifications that could arise if the wrong person found out. Maybe there is an overall feeling that ‘it won’t happen to us’ going on with some people, and these are the ones likely to slip up and get caught. As a community we need to be vigilant in the current climate until we get the laws changed at least. I believe we have much work to do in this area and I cannot stress enough how careful we need to be. It’s not right or fair for sure, but it’s something we have to do I’m afraid.

Do you feel that there is anything wrong with being consanguinamorous?

No: 134 (85.4%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 21 (13.4%)

Yes, it’s not normal: 2 (1.3%)

Another very encouraging result. Again it speaks to our comfort level with our identity, and the majority KNOW that there is nothing wrong with them. There is still work to be done for sure, but this shows how we as a people are heading in the right direction with how we regard ourselves as a minority group.

Do you ever have fears that you might be some kind of pervert?

No, I know I’m not: 111 (70.3%)

Not normally, but I get occasional bouts of self-doubt: 33 (20.9%)

Yes, sometimes: 13 (8.2%)

I feel that way all the time: 1 (0.6%)

Again, generally encouraging, but this does show how some of the brainwashing is getting through. Tell people often enough that they’re perverts and some of them might start to believe it. We’re doing incredibly well in such a hostile world, but I still feel we need to do more to ensure that NOBODY thinks that they’re perverted just because of who they love.

Do you ever feel that you may be coercing your partner simply because you’re related?

No, I know I’m not: 133 (85.3%)

Occasionally: 18 (11.5%)

Sometimes: 5 (3.2%)

All the time: 0

I included this question and the following one because there is a perception in society that we must be coercing our relatives or being coerced. Not only is that a ridiculous assertion, but it’s harmful because it leads to some people subconsciously accepting it as true and thereby not accepting themselves.

This is an extremely encouraging result yet again, proving that most of us have by now realized that what society says about us is completely off-base with the reality. That so many people in perfectly healthy relationships are even occasionally feeling this way shows the power of subconscious programming at work, and it’s something we must work on as a community to ensure that people aren’t feeling like this.

Do you ever feel that your partner might be coercing you without either of you realizing?

No, I’d realize if I was being: 137 (89%)

Occasionally: 10 (6.5%)

Sometimes: 6 (3.9%)

All the time: 1 (0.6%)

Wow, what a victory this result is, nearly 9 out of 10 of us know with certainty that we aren’t being coerced. Final nail in the coffin for those who accuse us of manipulating our relatives or being manipulated by them. Don’t you just love these myth-busting results?

What’s your take on society’s attitude towards consanguinamory?

It’s bigoted, irrational and hateful: 59 (38.1%)

They only hate us because they don’t understand us yet: 50 (32.3%)

I can see some of their points, but I think their reactions are pretty extreme: 45 (29%)

I wish they weren’t, but I think they may be right: 1 (0.6%)

So, the most common result is that it’s bigoted, irrational and hateful, and the second most common acknowledging that much of the hate is due to us not being understood yet. It’s a proven fact again and again throughout history, people who aren’t understood are often marginalized and hated… and this is EXACTLY what has happened to us.

Do you think that the law in all countries should be changed to allow consanguinamorous relationships and marriage?

Definitely yes: 122 (77.2%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 33 (20.9%)

No, that could be a bad idea: 3 (1.9%)

This goes to show how much we want our freedom and equal rights. And you know what, we have every right to be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other group of consenting adults. This isn’t a big ask, it’s just asking to be treated the same as everyone else. Our demands are simple, and they are morally right.

That some people aren’t sure is likely down to the fact that they’re feeling some level of discomfort within themselves about their identity and are still questioning whether it makes them ‘wrong’ in some way.

Have you ever suffered from any of the following problems as a result of persecution or fear of persecution (click all that apply)?

Panic Attacks: 16 (6.9%)

Anxiety: 72 (31.2%)

Mood swings: 31 (13.4%)

Depression: 25 (15.2%)

Nightmares: 16 (6.9%)

Vivid and disturbing daydreams depicting your worst fears: 20 (8.7%)

Insomnia: 30 (13%)

Suicidal thoughts: 11 (4.8%)

Number of people who skipped this question: 69 (43.4%)

Number of people who answered: 90 (56.6%)

Number of people who experienced more than one of these difficulties: 52 (57.8% of those with any kind of difficulty)

If anything highlighted the harm that prejudice and persecution does to people, THIS is it! It saddens me no end that so many people are suffering like this despite feeling okay about being what they are. Actually, it makes me so mad, so angry at society for putting this kind of pressure on innocent people. That 4.8% have suicidal thoughts as a result of either fearing persecution or actually being persecuted is very worrying.

You know, it goes to show how important it is to have contact with other consang people, to really be there for each other and offer a shoulder to cry on when things get tough. We NEED each other, to lend each other our strength, our advice, our time. This is what it means to be a persecuted minority in the world. It’s very important that we’re there for each other, often it’s the case that only another consang is able to help and REALLY get it and understand.

In general, do you feel that there is enough information out there on the internet about consanguinamory?

No, not by a long shot: 85 (54.5%)

Not Quite, but there is more than there was so it’s improving: 67 (42.9%)

Yes, there is: 4 (2.6%)

I asked this primarily because I wanted to gauge how people perceived the amount of information presently available and if by and large people feel that they needed more. From these results it seems that we DO need to do more, perhaps a LOT more.

Do you feel that the current blogs provide relevant and useful resources for people struggling with their sexuality?

Yes, it’s very useful: 89 (57.1%)

Maybe, I’m not sure: 60 (38.5%)

No, not at all: 7 (4.5%)

It seems that by and large we’re reaching people at least to some degree, and quite a few to a large degree, however it does indicate that more needs to be done in this area. We as community leaders are listening and we will respond to the results of this survey to ensure that this improves.

Do you think that the blogs portray an accurate picture of what it’s like to be in a consanguine relationship?

Very Much so: 64 (41.3%)

Sort of: 85 (54.8%)

No, not at all accurate: 6 (3.9%)

So by and large we’re presenting ourselves accurately, at least somewhat. However I think there must be something that we’re missing here. Maybe some people are having experiences which are not often talked about or we’ve just not covered some issues that need covering. If this is the case then I would urge any of the readers to get in touch with one of us and tell us what it is that we need to write about. It’s important that we cover issues from all angles and from all parts of the community. Our e-mail addresses are all available on our websites and we’re all open to letters, questions and requests from our readership.

What is your views on ‘incest porn’?

It’s insulting and degrading: 19 (12.1%)

I watch them but I can understand why some people get upset: 43 (27.4%)

I watch them and can’t see what the problem is: 59 (37.6%)

I don’t have an opinion because I don’t watch them: 36 (22.9%)

As expected, most of us have seen at least some incest porn, for those who have been around incest communities for a long time (especially non-GSA people) have likely seen some whether we wanted to or not. A smaller but significant number of us find it insulting and degrading, where a larger number watch it but understand why some people get upset. Incest porn contains usually a ridiculous number of overdone cliches, and shows very little character development and extremely unlikely scenarios (such as seeing a relative naked and/or masturbating, and then they have sex… and boy hasn’t that scenario inspired a lot of fake posts on the r/incest Reddit, and historically most other forums) This isn’t exclusive to incest porn it’s something that happens in porn in general. It is after all made to get people turned on, and it doesn’t surprise me that so many of us watch it because I feel that a lot of people will watch porn which aligns with their orientation.

Most of us can’t see a problem with the porn, and that’s probably because it’s just fantasy, even some regulars don’t mind watching for that very reason! That nearly 23% of us don’t watch it is likely because they’re probably not inclined to watching porn in a more general sense, not everyone wants to watch it or feels the need to watch it.

Would you ever join a non-porn forum like Kindred Spirits?

Yes, I’m a member already: 66 (42.3%)

I might: 77 (49.4%)

No, forums aren’t my thing: 13 (8.3%)

It’s encouraging that most people are either members currently or are at least open to the idea of joining. I can appreciate though that some people just aren’t open to the idea, forums aren’t for everyone after all, different people prefer to communicate in different ways.

Would you ever join the ‘I Support Full Marriage Equality’ Facebook group?

Yes, I’m already a member: 32 (20.6%)

I might, but I would have to create a fake name for it first: 64 (41.3%)

No, I don’t trust social media: 59 (38.1%)

This doesn’t surprise me at all. There is a perception, and not altogether unfounded, that Facebook is in league with government snoops. While such snooping has been sold to the public as a counter terrorism measure for catching potential jihadists, unfortunately it’s morphed by and large into mass surveillance. While it’s important to put things into perspective and realize that government has a finite amount of resources for surveillance and that it can’t possibly monitor every person all the time, I can fully understand and appreciate why this puts people off reaching out to us on such a platform even when using a fake name. It is illegal for most of us to be in these relationships and for that very reason I can see why the surveillance can be seen as a massive issue for us.

Which Blog is your favourite?

Full Marriage Equality: 73 (39.2%)

The Final Manifesto: 16 (8.6%)

Consanguinamory Blog: 59 (31.7%)

Lilys Gardener: 22 (11.8%)

Other: 16 (8.6%)

This is interesting, Keiths blog is the most popular, which is to be expected because he has been around the longest. That my blog is the second most popular has surprised me, I’ve not been at it for anywhere near as long and my writing style is quite different to Keiths. The Final Manifesto would likely have got higher ratings if he had been around more, but he was unable to be due to other commitments in the offline world, so if I were him I wouldn’t be too disappointed, his ratings will improve as he becomes more available. Cristinas blog netted a decent result, she doesn’t write as much but what she does produce is of high quality and usually very important.

Would you consider doing any online activism for the cause yourself?

No, it’s too risky: 75 (48.7%)

Yes, as long as I can protect myself from state snooping: 65 (42.2%)

I’m already doing it: 14 (9.1%)

With the state snooping issue I am not surprised that so many people are discouraged from getting involved. That over 9% of us are in some way involved in activism for us is a promising sign, it shows determination and strength of character to do what is necessary despite the obvious and unavoidable risks. Not every act of activism needs to be as bold as setting up a blog and becoming a prominent figure in the community, that’s not for everyone, I get that. But minds are changed one by one, and even as little as joining in an online debate or responding to ignorant and hateful posts can be considered activism.

Do you think that the online activism is going to make enough of a difference in the world?

Absolutely yes, you guys are doing a great job: 27 (17.4%)

I’d like to think so, I’m quietly hopeful: 84 (54.2%)

I doubt it, but good on you for trying: 39 (29.2%)

No, It’s a lost cause: 5 (3.2%)

This shows that the mood is generally optimistic, and that people are putting their faith in us as leaders to make the change possible. That’s a good sign. I’m not surprised though that some people think it won’t make a difference, we’ve been a downtrodden and horrendously misunderstood minority for so long and the prejudice is so deeply engrained that it’s impossible to shift. That said, how it is for us right now, is how it was for gays less than 100 years ago, look at how far they’ve come. If they can do it, then so can we! We ARE standing up for our rights at long last, we will reach hearts and minds the world over. We ARE the change.

Which topics do you think we need to cover more about?

Relationship advice: 68 (19.8%)

Legal issues: 67 (19.5%)

How to avoid getting caught: 36 (10.5%)

Dispelling Myths: 80 (23.3%)

Tackling Prejudice: 57 (16.6%)

I think you’ve got all bases well covered pretty well: 36 (10.5%)

This is such a good spread that it shows that we probably need to do a bit more on all of these topics. I do however feel that avoiding getting caught is probably a bigger issue than our readers believe that it is, considering how over 20% of us actually get caught! We definitely need to pad out our legal issues too, as currently we’re thinner on that than we should be.

What did you think of this survey?

It’s good, you should get plenty of good information from it: 135 (87.1%)

It’s good, but it was too long: 12 (7.7%)

I can’t see the relevance of the questions: 6 (3.9%)

I was bored by the end: 2 (1.3%)

So, overall people had a positive experience filling out the survey, that’s good news for me because I do plan to do more of them. The next ones I will do will be shorter and more focused on specific areas instead of being a massive survey like this one which was just intended to collect general information. Hopefully now, those who didn’t see the relevance of the questions will see the relevance now.

Overall conclusions and notes:

I’m really glad that so many people are comfortable with their orientation and that they’ve been able to be so despite the odds being stacked so heavily against us. We’re an amazing, strong and vibrant people, and the results of this survey prove that. The unnecessary suffering caused by our persecution must stop, because the persecution must stop, we deserve better and we will not rest until that happens.

I’d also like to thank everyone who took part for making this possible, it’s been an interesting analysis and I hope that the results are going to go a long way towards dispelling some of the myths about consanguinamorous people.

Jane Doe

Consanguinamory Study now CLOSED

The Consaguinamory Study is now closed having been run for one year. There has been 164 responses in total, which is a larger sample size than I expected, so thanks to all those of you who participated in the study. I will be publishing the results within the next few days once my analysis of the data is complete. After that point my usual posting habits will resume 🙂