A petition to France for FULL equality

Well folks, today it seems that I am the bearer of some good news for us. I have recieved an e-mail from our friend Richard from Australia. He has created a petition to France on our behalf. Now, as we already know, incest between consenting adults is not illegal in France, this petition however, if signed, could make France think about giving us full equal rights, including marriage rights. As Richard has correctly stated in his comments:

Liberté, égalité, fraternité  is French for “liberty, equality, fraternity”, and  the national motto of France, but where is the ‘égalité’  if CIAO ( Consensual Adult Incest Oriented )  people cannot marry and other sexual minorities can?

I would urge everyone who reads this to sign the petition, I already did.

Also I’d like to publicly thank Richard for doing this for us, he has previously submitted Petitions to Scotland to legalize incest, but so far to no avail. Lets hope we have better luck in France. If enough of us sign and we are successful, that would make France the first country to grant our people FULL EQUALITY. Let’s make it happen and


An Open Letter to Daniel and Santana Mexican, from Cristina Shy

Dear Daniel and Santana,

My friend, colleague, and fellow activist Cristina Shy has written a letter here for you. We’re aware of the outrageous prosecution you’re facing and Cristina may be able to help you. I would strongly advise you to get in touch with her as and when you see this message from her:

Dear Daniel and Santana,

I am a Legal Secretary and advocate for the rights of consenting adults to share love, sex, residence and marriage with any and all consenting adults.

I have been following your story on the internet closely and I think it is absolutely awful that the Federal government is prosecuting you both. You are both consenting adults and the government has absolutely no business in your bedroom.

Due to the oppressive laws that you both are forced to live and love under, I feel deeply for you and your situation.

If you are reading this, please know that you have a friend, ally, and advocate in me. I want to help you in any way I can. I would welcome contact and would do whatever I could to help you.

Please check out my website www.lilysgardener.com

If you want to contact me completely confidentially, please email me at lilysgardener@protonmail.com

Kind Regards to you both, Cristina Shy

As for me, I will continue to follow your case closely and will help in any capacity I am able to from my location in the UK.

I know things are difficult for you right now, but please at least realize that there is support for you out there, and that you did nothing wrong and that this prosecution is outrageous. It’s the state that is in the wrong and that is what our community is hoping to fix in the long term.


Jane Doe


This short film was brought to my attention this evening whilst I explored the facebook page Supporting Incestuous Relationships, if you haven’t checked it out yet I recommend you doing so because it shows much promise and there is good content already, I was not aware of this page myself until today.

The film depicts two brothers who fall in love with each other, but when their parents find out about their relationship it all ends very tragically. I will warn you it’s a real tear jerker, but it does show very powerfully the impact that incestophobia can have on peoples lives.

Also, I have added this video to ‘Media’ in case you would like to watch it again sometime.

Just who was the victim here?

Another day, another story of consenting adults being unfairly prosecuted simply for having a sexual relationship. Todays sorry story comes from Eagle Butte, where a man and woman, aged 43 and 25 respectively, have been charged with incest. You can go read the whole thing if you want to, it isn’t long. However, here are the most important parts:

The maximum penalty upon conviction is up to 5 years in custody and/or a $250,000 fine, 3 years of supervised release, and $100 to the Federal Crime Victims Fund.  Restitution may also be ordered.

The Indictment alleges that on November 20, 2016, Daniel Mexican and Santana Mexican knowingly engaged in consensual sex with each other, when they are within the degrees of consanguinity which would render a marriage void.

The first thing you notice here is that they were CONSENTING ADULTS. This was not a case of rape or child molestation, both were well above the age of consent, knew exactly what they were doing and consented to it. Nobody was in any way being harmed by their relationship, so THERE IS NO VICTIM HERE.

But wait, take that back, there IS a victim, the couple themselves. They’re the victims of state harrassment and persecution using the law as a weapon. The a look at the penalties: 5 years in jail, $250,000 fine…etc…. for consensual sex with another adult. How can this be in any way justified? It cannot be. As I have said several times here on my blog, other peoples disgust with incest is not a legitimate reason to impose criminal penalties on consenting adults. The only thing I find disgusting is this incestophobic prosecution!

Peoples lives are being torn apart, and for what? To stop others from doing something others find gross. When you stop to think about it, nobody actually gains anything from these prosecutions. It’s a waste of time and money, and it’s bigotted, irrational and hateful. The law has no business governing the sex lives of consenting adults, and even more than that, it has no business telling consenting adults that they cannot marry either.

Happy 1st Birthday Consanguinamory Blog! Now here is the surprise as promised :)

Okay, I’m a few hours early, but hardly able to contain my excitement I am posting now and not at midnight. The 4th January is a big milestone, it celebrates one year of this blog being on the Internet. So rather than just post about how great it is to be a well established and prominent blogger in the consanguinamory community, I thought I’d provide something for everyone to enjoy and make good use of.

As we all know, a lot of people are mistrustful of social media, and often with good reason. Facebook doesn’t like anonymous users, heck it even deactivated my (fake) account a while back and I had to sign up again! Facebook also isn’t quite so freedom of speech oriented, and it may indeed pry. These are all legitimate reasons why many members of our community have felt uncomfortable signing up and contributing to the movement using social media in a meaningful way. If this applies to you, I don’t blame you. I know that before he temporarily left us due to other committments, The Final Manifesto was looking for a Facebook alternative.

A few weeks ago I stumbled upon a possible solution for us, and investigated further. A new social media site, founded by people who believe in freedom of speech and privacy was created a few months ago. It’s called Minds, and it’s a smaller but rapidly growing social media network. Basically, you can say whatever you want to there, provided that you don’t use the site for illegal purposes (for instance selling drugs and the like). Minds also allows you to be an anonymous user, which means you only need a functioning e-mail address to sign up and it doesn’t ask you for your name, you merely choose a username and a password. I will caution you though that although it’s possible to be anonymous to other users, since we don’t know where the servers are, it would be prudent to use TOR Browser to disguise your IP address and keep yourself doubly safe.

I have been setting up some basics there for us, which so far is My own channel (everyone gets one by signing up), my blog (which I intend to use as a second copy of this blog, in terms of making duplicate postings there of everything I post on this website), and two groups. Consanguinamory Discussion Group is open to the public, it’s purpose is intended for education and outreach, and with it being so public, I would advise new members to speak about consanguinamory in more general terms rather than give personal experiences, so much same as we do in Keiths ISFME group over at Facebook. Friends of Lily on the other hand is a closed group, and you need to subscribe to my channel so I can send you an invitation, this group is just for us and it’s meant to be a social media equivalent of the Kindred Spirits forum where we can discuss our stuff privately.

All this said, I hope to see as many of you as possible on Minds, and like I said, if you want to be added to Friends of Lily, subscribe to my channel and I’ll add you.

Join Minds by clicking this link, and I will earn extra points for being your referrer, this means that those points can be spent boosting my blog material over there and helping to find others, so it’s win-win for everyone!

Happy New Year

I’d like to wish everyone a Happy New Year and hope you all had a good Christmas holiday. I’d like to think that 2017 will be the start of a new chapter for our community, one of growth and prosperity. I don’t speak here of economics, but of seeking out lost ones and bringing them home to our community where they belong, and I speak of growing in our understanding of ourselves and our self-accetance, and our prosperity in being able to convey our truths to the world. We’ve a long way to go to be sure, and the only way to get there is to put one foot ahead of the other. Our journey is not an easy one, but it is a worthwhile one, and we will succeed no matter how long it takes or how bleak it may sometimes seem. We may seem vulnerable, but we’re stronger united than we could imagine, and with our community spirit we are unbreakable.

On the 4th Jan, my blog turns one year old, and I plan to celebrate this milestone in style. I won’t tell you yet what’s going to happen, but it’s something that is going to be very useful for everyone. I can’t tell you more than that otherwise I will ruin the nice surprise! So keep your eyes open and visit on the 4th.

Modern sexual ethics: Where do we fit in?

The sexual ethics of humanity is undergoing a rethink, one that started in the 1960s with the free love movement and the Hippies, and has thus far culminated in equal rights for LGBT people including marriage rights. However boundaries are still being pushed, as rightly they should be, and within the next few decades, ideally sooner, we will see equality being gained for polycules and consangs.

So, what exactly are modern sexual ethics?

I think it boils down to a very basic principal governing what is defined as acceptable and unacceptable sexual behaviour:

ACCEPTABLE behaviour is that which does not cause harm.

UNACCEPTABLE behaviour is that which harms.

Clearly, acceptable behaviours need not be governed at all, it’s none of anyones business except the participants. Unacceptable behaviours need to be criminalized simply because of the harm that they cause.

How is harm defined?

Very easily, anything which causes unwanted physical or psychological distress. For example, harm is caused by crimes like rape, child molestation, animal rape and necrophilia. Harm is caused when somebody is violated against their will, and when meaningful affirmative consent cannot be given.

Some people might want to argue ‘grey area’ but in reality it is almost always cut and dry. Say for instance a guy and his girlfriend go on a date, and they both get drunk. Say they’ve had a brilliant night out and they’ve enjoyed themselves, and it seemed extremely likely that they would have sex at the end of the night. Now imagine they went back to his place in a taxi, and that they have a bit more wine at his place, and then they go to bed, except that now she has fallen asleep, or more like passed out because of the alcohol. If he were to have sex with her as she was unconcious then that is clearly unacceptable, because she was not awake and aware and did not give her consent, even though she was flirting earlier in the day. Even if this couple had been having regular sex for a while, she still did not consent on this particular evening. Consent is never once for all time, it is something that is renewed for each sexual encounter, even within a marriage. If sex is taken from somebody in a manner such as described above, it is still rape even if force is not used, because sex wiwas taken thout consent.

This exact form of logic applies in all circumstances: If somebody is too young to give meaningful consent because they don’t even know the full ramifications of what they’re consenting too, then any sex with that underage individual is rape (however sex between similarly aged minors is ill advised but not rape in the sense that neither have power over the other and have the same level of understanding). Likewise animals cannot give consent to sex with humans, so anyone who has sex with their dog and believes that their pet is fine with it is still a rapist.

Any form of rape, that is, taking sex without consent, is actually a form of theft. and it is a form that goes way beyond when somebody shoplifts or nicks what you left lying on the table in the pub, it goes beyond even when somebody burgles your house and ransacks all your stuff. It is a theft not of property, but of the most personal of personal spaces. It is a theft of dignity and trust, and this is why it is rightly punished by law enforcement.

So, what can be added to the acceptable list then?

Any behaviour which does not lead to unwanted physical or psychological harm. Anything which is sexuality expressed between consenting adults.

Obviously, it goes without saying that the gay and straight communities pass this with flying colours, and this is now widely understood, So what about others?

BDSM people are often marginalized because people say things like ‘well they harm each other’… well, the key is ‘unwanted harm’ versus ‘consensual’. There is a world of difference between two consenting adults role playing and perhaps engaging in a bit of bondange and spanking, compared to some nutter who abducts somebody at random, ties them up and beats the crap out of them and rapes them for sexual kicks. We have to be sensible and see that one is absolutely okay (although not everyones cup of tea), and the other is abduction, sexual assault and actual bodily harm.

Poly people pass too, because everyone involved in consenting adults, no cheating is involved as everyone should know exactly who is involved with who and consent to it before it happens. This lifestyle leaves little room for sexual jealously as usually experienced by mono people, and so if you’re the type likely to get such jealously then being with a poly person probably isn’t right for you… but that doesn’t make it wrong, it makes it just different that’s all. I’m mono, but I support poly.

Consang people pass as well, because, you guessed it, we’re all consenting adults. Again, this isn’t for everyone, but it’s for some of us, and society should respect that. As soon as we dispel these ignoranced based myths surrounding us and show that we’re a valid part of relationship diversities, and that we are not to be feared, we can get the acceptance we need and deserve as human beings.

Some unnecessary fears

Some people fear the direction in which modern sexual ethics is taking society, sometimes they come from a religious perspective, and sometimes from a secular one, but what they have in common is a belief in the slippery slope fallacy and a deep rooted ignorance of what these ethics actually stand for. They fear things like people being able to marry their cats and dogs, amongst other even more ridiculous and outrageous beliefs. They do not know how wrong they are.

Where all this actually leads

The progress, which is still in the process of happening and will continue for many years to come, is in the direction of people being allowed to conduct their romantic and sexual lives in the way that they see fit providing that this does not violate the rights of their partner(s). In other words, rape, pedophilia and beastiality will all remain illegal, where polyamory and consanguinamory will be recognised as valid at long last. It means that TRUE diversity will be accepted and shown in the world. A lot of ‘progressives’ aren’t actually progressive, they accept the progress made so far but they cannot see the progress yet to be made. Being tolerant of what you’re told to be tolerant of, and intolerant of what you’re told to be intolerant of is not progressive, it’s regressive, and it’s hypocritical, in the way that such people do not actually hold true to the values they claim to uphold. For instance, a faux progressive will be very pro-LGBT, and then come up with slurs against consang people. I’ve seen it happen many times in debates in response to articles.

At the end of the day, people are either REALLY progressive, or they’re faking it to look good (which means that they will defend the status quo). Now, I will speak out against these fake progressives because they are hypocrites, they deny us our rights just as readily as the most conservative of conservatives. They claim that consenting adults means consenting adults, but then they deny that consent can occur between relatives when that statement is demonstrably false. They sometimes hide this by pretending that all incest is child molesting, which again is demonstrably false. I run circles around these guys in debate, and they always end up reducing the debate to ad-hominem style attacks. When I see an ad-hominem, I know I have won.

If you’re a conservative reading this, please do not think I am trying to slate you, I honestly am not. I am trying to point out merely where the liberals have a valid point if, and only if it is continued to it’s logical and moral conclusion.


If you believe that ALL consenting adults, regardless of their orientation have the right to conduct their own private life in peace and without any interference from the law, or from fellow citizens, then you’re a REAL progressive. Such a person is in accordance with modern sexual ethics, and such a person should therefore by an ally of consanguinamory.

These issues can, and should be divorced from the usual left/right mantra, and given over to the basic human rights to which we all claim to subscribe, the rights to a private life and freedom of choice for instance. The left offer progressivism and all the positives that brings (it has it’s downsides too but that is beyond the scope of my blog), and the right brings libertarianism, where the rights of the individual are seen as inviolable. Both ideas arrive at the exact same conclusion! Consanguinamory ought be legalized, and the sooner the better.

A Christmas Message

I’d like to wish the whole community a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year (and for those who do not celebrate Christmas, I wish you seasons greetings also for whichever holiday you observe at this time of year, Hannuka or Yule to name just two).

I would like to take a moment to say something important. Christmas is considered a time to spend with family, and for those of us who are involved with family it is very special, and for those of us who used to be it can sometimes be painful as well as joyful. So if you’re in a happy and strong relationship, give thanks to God for the wonderful gift of love you have, and cherish every moment you spend with that person, make each Christmas special. For those whose relationships are in the past, give thanks to God that you had the chance to experience such love, I know it hurts when you’re no longer with him or her, and that such a loss is felt more keenly at a time such as this, but it is better to have lost such a love than to have never had it to begin with. My thoughts and prayers are with you, for I am one of you.

God bless this community and all the wonderful people within it. I have come to know so many good people over this last year, and I’d like to take this chance to say thank you to each of them for their valuable contributions to the movement.

Special thanks go to the following people:

Cristina Shy (Lilysgardener, FB and KS) – For your continued close friendship and support over this year. Love you to bits, enjoy your Christmas.

Keith Pullman (Full Marriage Equality, FB and KS) – You’ve been a source of inspiration and encouragement throughout the year, thank you.

Finn Manfredsen (The Final Manifesto, FB and KS)- Although you’ve been largely absent due to other commitments, you inspired me greatly in the short time we spoke, thank you. You’re missed and we will welcome your return when possible.

Stefan (Ally on e-mail and regular commenter here) – For your help in finding a suitable forum provider for new KS and your continued support and friendship, thanks.

Richard (Ally on e-mail) – For your efforts with the Scottish Petition and your friendship, thanks.

Johnbob (Ally on KS and regular commenter here) – For your support and bright suggestions through the year, and your support of Monica and Caleb, thank you.

Sleepingrain (Ally on KS) – For your friendship and bright ideas, thank you.

Also thanks go to all followers of this blog, my youtube channel and podcast, simply for being there and supporting the cause.

All of you wonderful people make this community what it is, a truly safe space for consangs, and a supportive and wonderful environment. It’s an honour and a priviledge to help represent and serve you, and provide educational materials for the public. This community means the world to me, it’s a home other than home, we’re all one family, we’re the consang community, united by the nature of our love.

So this Christmas, think about all the people in the community who have made a difference in your life, in even the smallest ways. It’s the season not just of celebration, but of appreciation of what we have in life and what we can contribute. God be with you all and enjoy your holidays.

Tackling incestophobia

As we all know, incestophobia is an intense and irrational fear or hatred of consanguinamory and consanguinamorous people. Remember that not everyone who has an objection to consanguinamory is an incestophobe, sometimes objections come from a simple lack of education on the subject or from simply copying what ‘everyone knows’, when in reality, common knowledge is often in error. Incestophobes are people who are highly irrational in their argument, unwilling to learn, and hateful in their mindset, and occasionally the ridiculous comments that spews forth from their frothing mouths beggars belief.

So let’s compare the three main mindsets of a tolerant person, a normal objection from ignorance and a genuine incestophobe, just for clarification:

TOLERANT PERSON: People should be free to love who they are in love with without any prejudice by the system or other people. They may not want this type of relationship for themselves, but they understand that some people do and have no objection to others pursuing such relationships. Many people in this category are allies.

NORMAL OBJECTOR: Somebody who basically knows no better, they’ve swallowed much of the misinformation about the subject whole simply because they haven’t been exposed to any other information. They generally believe it should be illegal on the grounds of genetics, religion, or encouraging child molesters, but they do acknowledge that for some it is a victimless crime.

INCESTOPHOBIC: These people go WAY beyond normal objectors, they have not only swallowed the misinformation from society, but they’ve embellished it in the re-telling. These people will name-call and hurl abuse at consang people online, and come out with outrageous statements, backed up only with how disgusted they are at our very existence. These people can be very irrational and debating them is usually not worth the time and energy spent, unless it is to allow them to make a fool of themselves. If you take one on, be prepared for CAPSLOCK ABUSE and a liberal amount of bad language and insults.

As you can see, the normal objections may be woefully ignorant, but the mindset isn’t irrational. These are the people we can debate with, engage with, and change their minds gradually. Most of them have never knowingly had any interactions with consanguinamorous people, but if they did they can could be persuaded to move into the tolerant category. They will be open minded enough to ask us questions and learn about us in order to update their worldview.

So, how to we reach genuine incestophobes? While it would be nice to think that we can tackle them head on and put forward our counter-objections, I don’t think this approach is going to get us very far. Usually they become more irate when faced with evidence or arguments against their position, and the stronger those arguments the more irate they become. I’ve seen it happen many times when debates have sparked up in response to articles on the subject. Their irate attitude isn’t entirely down to misunderstanding, it’s down to their emotional response. This is what makes their reaction so extreme. Obviously they have a very strong Westermarck effect, but that still doesn’t excuse their bad behaviour.

What will work is them seeing more and more people move towards tolerance, knowing that more and more people are beginning to disagree with their position may in itself lead to them questioning their own position. Minds will not be opened by us screaming ‘incestophobe’ at them, but by them being given a reason to look deeper. Sad, but humanity does on the whole act as a herd, to follow what is trending. When ignorance is alleviated and more people become tolerant of us, the social pressure not to be a bigot will be too much for many of them. Attitudes can and do change, but such significant changes as these take place slowly over time, but once it starts heading in that direction and the momentum is built then the necessary changes are inevitable.

I also doubt that incestophobia will be stamped out in it’s entirity, after all, there are still some pockets of homophobia around even though there is plenty of information out there now about homosexuality. What matters is changing enough minds and hearts to open the doors of equal rights for us, starting with decriminalization and ending with marriage equality and anti-discrimination laws.

One piece of advice I can give you is to not let haters like this get you down. Sometimes they can say things which are downright hurtful, but that doesn’t mean that they’re right, actually in many cases they show themselves up for the idiots they are. Whatever you do don’t get yourself into a heated argument with one, it will quickly degenerate into trading insults, and that isn’t what you want, it’s a useless waste of time at best and counterproductive and emotionally exhausting at worst. It might be difficult to do when somebody is giving you such ammunition, but retain the moral high ground and anyone watching will realize that compared to that idiot, it’s you who is being most reasonable.

Anyone serious about tackling the problem should consider joining our efforts to educate the public, and thus help make the change quicker. There are many ways in which people can participate:

  1. Participate in anonymous interviews to let them know your story (or why you’re an ally)
  2. Share the links to our blogs with othes on social media like facebook.
  3. If you’re really adventurous you might even consider starting a blog of your very own, this approach isn’t everyones cup of tea, but if you think you have the necessary skills and time it’s worth giving it a go.
  4. Creating and sharing youtube videos or podcasts on the subject.
  5. Offering emotional support to consang people if they’ve come under attack, although this won’t change the mind of the incestophobe it will help to demonstrate to those who have been attacked that not everyone is against them.

The tragedy isn’t that they’re related


I have however decided to keep the story up, because although it wasn’t for real, it might be of interest to people who genuinely are in accidental incest situations, who need genuine support without condemnation of their feelings (which don’t just magically vanish when somebody finds out that their lover is related to them).


Thanks to a friend of mine in the community, I am now aware of this story. Basically, a woman has found out that the man she was due to marry in a couple of weeks is actually her half-brother, and she has asked people on Reddit for advice. According to the article, he knew they were half-siblings for about a year, but did not tell her because he didn’t want to hurt her and lose her. Obviously this has left this lady feeling, in her own words:

‘I’m betrayed. I’m disgusted. I’m hurt. I’m ashamed. I’m heartbroken. I don’t know what to do,’

I can well understand that she feels betrayed because he lied to her for a year, and then she has this huge bombshell only two weeks before she was supposed to get married. Nobody likes to be lied to. However, we should consider why he would have felt it necessary to hide this information from her:
1. He loved her and wanted to protect her feelings. He may have felt that there was no good way or right time to be able to disclose this information.
It’s easy to see how this would have been the case. Imagine it ‘How’s your days been, mine has been fine, but I have some bad news for you, I’ve just found out we’re half-siblings’. Um… yea, that’s going to go down like a lead balloon right there. He was likely afraid of what her reaction was going to be, which is very understandable.
2. He knew that if the truth came out, they would be forced to split up.
Sadly, this is often the case. The social pressure from others if they had found out would have been astronomical, not to mention the risk of being reported to the cops and possibly incarcerated. All very good reasons to keep quiet. The law doesn’t punish accidental incest, but it does punish people who knowingly have sex with a relative. In reality it shouldn’t punish anyone, but that’s the sad reality of todays world.
3. He thought that because they planned to remain childless, that it probably didn’t matter so much that they were related.
While we now know that the risks are far less than he was lead to believe, and it shouldn’t matter whether they were planning to have kids or not, he believed that them wanting to remain childless meant that the primary argument against incest didn’t apply to them. Again, this is very understandable.
So what SHOULD he have done?
It’s very easy for somebody on the outside to judge and tell this man that he should have disclosed the information and ended the relationship, life and feelings are not that simple. There is no absolute right or wrong answer to this. Ideally he should have come to us and found out the facts about Genetic Sexual Attraction (which accidental incest can be encompassed by since they feel this added connection, except without ever knowing why), and THEN approached his half-sister armed with the information, but I’d wager that a lot of consang couples, especially those in accidental incest situations are unaware of our existence. He did the best he could in this situation, but sadly, and very understandably, his half-sister is still hurt by the situation.
So who is the victim here?
In truth, they both are. The lady is obviously because she was lied to, but so is he. They’re both victims of the incest taboo and ingrained prejudice against our people. They cannot be with each other and get married, just because they’re related. She would not have felt so repuled if consanguinamory was more well known and understood in society, and he would not have felt the need to hide it from her. They had a happy and healthy relationship, they were in love, they wanted to marry, they had their lives planned and then it all came crashing down on them… all because of societal prejudice. Now, isn’t that the REAL tragedy of this story?