22nd Jan 2015

A Young Adult Love in Hiding

From Full Marriage Equality:

I’m a female college student living in the southern US. I’m a single college student with one brother, with whom I’m involved. I live with a female roommate. […]  [My brother and I] were always close, and most affectionate. We never went through any serious sibling rivalry and were always like friends to each other.

[…] It just sort of happened [laughs]. Sounds lame but it’s true. We had always been affectionate in an innocent way and I think we always had a hidden curiosity about moving it forward, but never did. We were chilling at home on the couch and we both had a little bit to drink, but were not drunk. I think we just got really comfortable with each other and lost sight of how far things were going. It’s kind of blurry where the line got crossed. At one point we were curled up together on the couch, which we’d done before and it’s been totally innocent. Our heads had been leaning together and we both turned at almost the same moment. I can’t remember who kissed who first but it happened. There was no intercourse, but things were a bit awkward for the next few days.

[…] It was confusing. It took a while to register what was happening, and when it did I found I was so turned on I didn’t want to stop, but I knew I should have. I was a bit conflicted, but we couldn’t pull away.

[…] [Our relationship’s n]ot really kinky, but there is the “taboo” aspect that sometimes turns us on, but as time goes on that “taboo” has faded and it feels normal.

[…] Its been a couple years, and it’s hard to say. We know we cant openly be in a relationship and we don’t want to hurt our family. I guess you could say siblings with benefits, but then our relationship has presented problems when seeing other people so its a bit unclear. […] I have one friend who knows and shes understanding but even then I’m paranoid about her knowing. […] The hiding and lack of acceptance is the hardest thing. I think we have a closer emotional bond than unrelated lovers have.

[…] [It’s] hard to say [if we’d ever get married], I’d like to say yes, but even then marriage is a huge step regardless of the type of relationship

[…] If this helps anyone, I am very glad!



Man and his mother punished for having children

A case from Zimbabwe:

[…] It is alleged that the first time Simon impregnated his mother, she had a miscarriage. However, this time Vhangare is alleged to be five months pregnant and Simon is responsible. The pair reportedly fled the community recently after getting news that Chief Chinamhora, Simon Chidziva, had sent his aides to arrest them.

[…] It is alleged that Vhangare’s husband, Agripah, suffered a stroke in 2008 and relatives reportedly assigned Simon to assist his mother [taking] care of the father. Later in the same year, it is alleged Vhangare started vomiting and revealed to a neighbor that she was pregnant and her son was responsible. Family elders reportedly resolved the matter before fining the pair an undisclosed number of cattle. Two months later, Vhangare suffered a miscarriage before her husband’s death in 2008. Simon and his mother reportedly continued with their relationship that resulted in another pregnancy.

[…] The matter came to light after Vhangare absconded church services, [prompting] churchmates to pay her a visit. It was then discovered that Vhangare was pregnant again and neighbours reported the matter to Chief Chinamhora who sent his aides to arrest the two. “We are going to hunt for the two and we will punish them severely to send a clear message to would-be offenders that we do not tolerate such acters,” the chief said yesterday.

[…] In a related incident, another pair from Mutonda village under Chief Chinamhora, was fined three beasts after siring two children in an incestuous relationship. A 26-year-old man and his niece (22) reportedly cohabited as husband and wife since 2007. They bore two children now aged four and one. The matter came to light after the man’s uncle filed a complaint upon realising that his sister’s son had paid a bride price for his daughter to his brother-in-law.

[…] In passing sentence, Chief Chinamhora ordered the man to pay two heads of cattle before relocating permanently to his paternal homestead in Rusape. The woman was ordered to pay a cow.



Siblings punished for having a family

Another case from Zimbabwe:

A Mt Darwin brother and sister were last week ordered to perform 260 hours of community service after engaging in an incestuous relationship that culminated in a pregnancy. Yeukai Semene (23) and his sister Rumbidzai Nyamhanza (19) were found guilty of having sexual intercourse “within a prohibited degree of relationship”.

The two were sentenced to 12 months in jail, but four months were suspended on condition that they do not commit a similar offence within the next five years. The other eight months were suspended on condition that the pair completes 260 hours of community service at Dotito Clinic and Kadohwata Primary School.

Their mothers are biological sisters who were married to a bigamist. Facts are that in December last year at Mutoro Village under Chief Dotito, the two had sexual intercourse which led to Nyamhanza falling pregnant. The matter came to light when family members grilled Nyamhanza on who was responsible for her pregnancy. Police were tipped off leading to their arrest.

When magistrate Mr Sithole Rushambwa asked the accused whether they would not repeat the same offence in the future, Semene promised never to do it again while Nyamhanza hesitated before also promising likewise.



A Happy Couple That Deserves Equality

From Full Marriage Equality:

All my life I looked up to [my brother], and he’s always been there for me. He’s been the best big brother a girl could have, and we became very close. When we’d watch TV, he’d sometimes put his arm around me and I would rest my head on him.

[…] He didn’t know how to tell me [that he had feelings for me], [because] he didn’t want to scare me or hurt our relationship. I could tell something was bothering him and finally one day we talked about it. It was difficult, but he told me how he felt. I was surprised, of course, but I also felt excited. I saw him in a new light, and realized how cute he really was.

During that talk, he kissed me once, on the lips. I felt something, like a spark almost, when he did. It only lasted a couple seconds but it excited me. Our relationship became even closer after that. 

Before we took things further we did talk about it. He was very patient, and wanted to make sure I was comfortable with what we were doing. We started to become sexual with each other, but we took things slowly… He was patient and gentle, and eventually we became lovers. It was over a period of months from that first kiss to finally having regular intercourse. He didn’t rush me into it, though I know he was eager to do it. He told me that he never felt truly happy with any of his old girlfriends; it was me that made him happy. He told me just being around me made him feel good. You have no idea how special I felt when he told me that.

[…] It was a natural progression. We started with holding, rubbing and touching with clothes on at first, then later shirts off, and so on. He guided me but we went at my pace. We can usually tell how the other is feeling, so sometimes we didn’t need to talk. He made sure to ask if I was okay with bigger steps, like trying oral sex and intercourse.

[…] When we were touching each other, especially when nude, I knew we were getting into something very special and exciting. Of course I was nervous too, but Ryan got me through it. I never once felt taken advantage of. My first time with him is something I will never forget. I don’t think it could have been any better… We realized we truly belonged together, and promised to always be together.

[…] Today we live in our own place. Our neighbors think we’re a happily married couple. When Ryan comes home from work, we get dinner ready and enjoy it, sit together and talk, watch TV, cuddle, until he has to go to bed to rest up for work tomorrow. He’s off on weekends so we have lots of fun then. We might go out, see friends or our parents, or just stay in and enjoy each other. We are more accepting of others into things that aren’t mainstream, but we are monogamous and our sex, while enhanced by our bond and love for each other, is otherwise what most people would consider normal sex. I think anyone seeing us in a restaurant or shopping would see a happy couple.

[…] Over time there were these thoughts I had that what we were doing was considered wrong. I mean, that’s the whole reason we had to hide it from others, right? Anyway, I didn’t let that stop us, but still it bothered me. That’s when I started reaching out to find others like us. I read about incest and incest couples online, checked out various forums, and finally started chatting with other people. It was those chats that finally eased my mind. I found others like us, and it turned out there were a lot more than I thought I’d find… I felt good knowing there was so many, I didn’t feel like we were alone anymore.

[…] It was hard hiding our relationship from others, including our parents, but we managed it. Our parents do know about us now. We knew we couldn’t hide it from our parents forever. We didn’t want to hide it, but we were nervous about talking about it with them. However, they figured out something was going on before we told them. Looking back, I’m not surprised. We spent lots of time together and they knew we weren’t seeing other people on a serious level. Plus they could just tell there was something between us. When we said we wanted to share a place, saving money was our excuse, but they knew it was time to confront us. So we had a long talk. A lot was said, but luckily they didn’t get angry. They finally said we could live the way we wanted if it was that important to us. It took time, but they have come to accept us.

[…] I think the fact that they’re going to become grandparents helped them to accept us being together as a couple. We’re expecting our first child, a daughter, and I couldn’t be happier with my life. Having a child was a big decision for us, but I know we’ll be great parents.

[…] Of course I would marry my brother if I could. We want to spend our lives together, raise children together. And I know it’s not just us that wishes society would accept this kind of relationship. I’ve talked to many other people, and I know there are many incest couples that wish they didn’t have to hide either. True love should never have to be hidden, it should be celebrated.

[…] Sibling couples do have advantages and better relationships, in my opinion. Siblings typically know each other well, and care for each other deeply. They help each other, see each other through rough times, and are always there when needed. When the relationship becomes sexual, this means it is a closer and better relationship. The lovemaking is intense, very intense. There really is nothing like it. When the relationship goes on long enough, a very strong bond forms, linking the siblings together always.


We’re doing OK here. We spent Thanksgiving with our parents. They do enjoy spoiling their granddaughter. She’s getting so big too, definitely going to be a tall girl.

You know, I look at her sometimes and think that if we just blindly followed what people said was the right thing for us to do, we wouldn’t have her. If I only thought of my brother as my brother and nothing else, I wouldn’t have her. I can’t imagine life without her or him. People need to understand. I can only hope that someday they do.
Sorry, just needed to get that out. I’m doing fine, I am happy as is my brother. He spends time with her every day, and she loves her daddy.



Case Study (Brother and Sister)

This is an interview with a friend of mine, who’s in a romantic relationship with her genetically related older brother. It follows the format used by the Full Marriage Equality blog’s case studies. Her answers were rather terse, so I’ll elaborate based on previous conversations I’ve had with her.


Describe your background.

Simple [Southern] girl. Loving home, A and B grades all through school, semi-religious family. normal stuff.

How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation… are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you a monogamist, polygamist, or….?

I guess bi, but the only man I’m interested in is my brother. And I haven’t been with that many women.

You currently live with… ?

Parents, but I’m moving into my brother’s apartment soon.

What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up?

Very close. He was my best friend growing up and my protector.

When/how did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

He saw me “playing” one day and called me on it. I confessed that [I was in love with] him after he caught me. We talked and that led to a kiss. After that we took it really slow and eventually… Well you know.

Can you describe your feelings during that?

Anxiety, arousal, embarrassment that he caught me, and overwhelming joy that he accepted me. Never shame.

Describe your relationship now.

Hmm, closer than brother and sister, yet still with that bond. But it’s like it’s augmented with the affection that I believe all lovers share. I hope that’s clear enough.

This is pretty normal, actually. People with no experience of such couples and relationships assume that the romantic bond and the familial bond must be mutually exclusive. It turns out, not necessarily; not if both aspects of the relationship are healthy.

Do you have any children together?

You know the answer to that!

Yes, yes I do! She became pregnant recently, and she and her brother decided to keep the child. She’s actually the sister referenced in this very post. She decided to contact me, and that was the beginning of our friendship. Her most recent visit to the obstetrician indicates that everything is a-okay!

Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

Parents and our aunt. We had to make sure we only “played” when we were alone. We took a lot of road trips.

This is actually the most interesting part of the story, I think, and it seems that I’ll have to relay it for her.

When she initially contacted me, she and her brother hadn’t yet come out to anyone in their family. She’d become pregnant recently, and they decided to keep the baby. They knew they wouldn’t be able to hide it forever, and decided to come out to their parents instead of inventing some lie. They were planning on telling their parents in a couple weeks.

I gave them the advice Dan Savage gives gay kids coming out. As an adult child, your only source of power over your parents is your presence in their lives. Come out to them in the way that is most comfortable for them, and then give them space – up to a year if need be – to let them process their emotions. If they can’t get over their prejudice by then, then they shouldn’t have a place in your life.

She agreed. They knew they needed a place to stay after they came out to their parents, so her brother came out to their aunt. Their aunt is a really socially progressive person. She’s a lesbian, and when she came out to their grandfather a long time ago, their grandfather disowned her. Her experience with prejudice opened her up to the idea that consenting adults should be allowed to love who they want, regardless of prejudice, so she was extremely supportive. She agreed to let them stay over at her house after their coming out.

They decided to come out to their mother first, and I agreed that it was a good idea. Their mother was already giving them the impression that she knew something was up, and hadn’t seemed to freak out about it yet. It also sounded to me like, between their mother and father, their father was the one who’d have the stronger reaction. The sister eventually decided that it was a good idea to come out to their mother privately, and then let her mother handle her dad while she and her brother were away.

I decided that the best way I could help them was to compile every possible argument I could, with full evidence, into one pamphlet/essay. This was the result. It contains moral and psychological arguments, historical evidence, and modern testimony, as well as the current state of our scientific knowledge. From a distance, that’s all I could do.

When the day came, she printed out my pamphlet, and she and her brother sat down with their mother. Their mother wasn’t surprised by the revelation that they were sexually involved. (Their intuition that she knew was, in fact, correct.) She got furious when she found out that the sister was pregnant, but calmed down after she learned that it was due to birth control failure, not unsafe sex. After reading the pamphlet, she agreed to explain the situation to their father the next day. The two siblings went that night to stay with their aunt.

Their mother talked to their father the next day, and he did indeed flip out. From my conversations with the sister, it seems to me that her father’s heart is in the right place, but he still flies off the handle. After he threatened to split his children up and force his daughter to get an abortion, the mother calmed him down enough to talk to him. She showed him the pamphlet, and they talked it over.

It took a while for the father to completely cool down and mull things over, so the two siblings stayed at their aunt’s place, keeping in touch with their mom. After a few days the aunt had a conversation with the father. He had been very affected by the grandfather’s treatment of the aunt, and still resented the grandfather for splitting up their family with his bigotry. (That’s possibly why he was quick to accept the sister when she came out as queer to the family.) The aunt pointed out that he was acting just like the grandfather. That seemed to hit home.

A few days after that, the brother got a call from the father that they needed to talk. He went that weekend back to the family home and had a conversation with his father. It turned out to be a “dad” talk, as I told the sister it might be: he lectured the brother on treating his sister right, and how he’d be in serious danger if he ever hurt her.

After that, the two siblings went back home. Though they are open with their parents now, they still refrain from public displays of affection, for the benefit of their father – he still seems a bit uncomfortable. (While they were at their aunt’s house, however, they were completely open with their physical affection. They even had date nights. Their aunt was completely supportive and commented on how cute they were together.) When her brother visits, their parents even let him sleep in her bed. (Her mother said, “What’s the worst that could happen? He knocks you up?”)

So, yeah. Quite the coming out experience. Very stressful, but ultimately, it’s ended pretty wonderfully.

Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been?

Very aggravating. You love someone so much but you can’t share in any of the little moments. First kiss, dates, stuff like that.

What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What’s your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other and that you can’t truly consent?

Fuck off. Our love is just as strong, or stronger than, most couples in America.

Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

It’s just as wrong [or right] as any other relationship.

If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

Hell Yes! I already have my wedding planned out. It won’t be for real, but I do plan on having one.

What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a brother or sister, or some other relative? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

I’m not the best at advice, but just let love be free. It’s not hurting anyone is it? And [if you’re a parent of children like us] just be supportive, don’t make it a witch hunt. They’re still your children.

Have you met in-person or do you know anyone else who has experience with consanguineous sex or consanguinamory?

Just one other couple. They’re in their mid-30’s and still love each other dearly.

Any plans for the future?

A happy life for me, our baby, and my brother.


I’m really happy for them, and I hope y’all are too. What’s upsetting is that, in their current home state, they could be sent to jail for life. I’m not kidding. Southern states have the harshest “incest” laws. That’s not just ridiculous, it’s morally repugnant.

The law denies these two the ability to show their relationship to others and act as role models for other people in similar situations. If we all say we care about achieving an ethical society, then how can forcing these two to hide or be locked up achieve that? It’s actually hurting our ethical goals! When so many people are in emotionally and physically abusive relationships, how can we deny society the benefit of couples like this?

They should be able to marry, just like everyone else, and just like they dream of. One day, they’ll go through the wedding ceremony with family and friends, and be married to each other in the eyes of those who matter to them. Still, they’ll lack the basic rights and protections afforded other married couples. That’s fundamentally unjust, especially under current legal frameworks. There is no rational justification for denying them their rights.

Join us in supporting full marriage equality.


A Loving Couple Denied Their Freedom to Marry

We have both been married but neither marriage lasted too long. While being married, we talked daily and honestly tried to help each other work out whatever problems were had with the spouse.

The brother is pansexual: “I can find attraction, both sexually and just from a beauty aspect in just about anything.” The sister, however, is somewhat bisexual: “I’ve never been with a woman and would love the chance to do so, at least once.”

Yes we are [biological siblings]. Given how close we are in age, we know where our high sex drive comes from [laughs].

[…] No, we do wish we could have children together but [my sister] lost a baby (late term miscarriage) in her marriage and it did a lot of damage both physically and emotionally. Jamie is currently unable to have any children.

[…] We had pretty normal relationship growing up. We were quite close and really had a great friendship with each other. We were inseparable. Normal except for our explorations of each other [laughs]. […] It was very gradual from an early age. We shared a bedroom and bathed together every night. [My brother] definitely made the first move while we were bathing. […] It felt safe. There were feelings that I can only describe now as it was comfortable, natural and very safe feeling. Like I was complete.

[…] I would definitely say [that our lovemaking is] a natural thing. It wasn’t until early teen years we really became aware it’s taboo, but for me it just always felt right. You hear everyone talking about finding the “one”, I can’t help it that I did and she just happens to be one my sisters. I still find it strange that so many have the incest fantasy/fetish. We fantasize about being a “normal” couple. I am aware that the nature of our relationship does make it kinky to most, though I don’t see it that way. We do have a kinky side and do other things that would also put our lovemaking in a kinky context, but though those nights aren’t an everyday thing. We cuddle, we are very affectionate, and I think we make our friends sick with the amount of love we have – these friends only know us as a couple.

[…] Our relationship now is a very healthy one. We argue, we kiss and make up, we have a pretty great life. We are in a closed relationship but were inspired by a Tumblr blog to let others into our lives. It’s been great to see all the support some people have for us.

We have been living together for just over 6 years now following our divorces. We share a bedroom but have a spare room set up for Jamie as a “cover” for when company comes to visit. We would absolutely say the two roles of being siblings and lovers are inseparable! Here, we live one life but when we go back home, we have to assume the sibling roles.

[…] Nobody knows the true nature or the full story of our relationship. We would be disowned by our family. Our friends where we live only know us as a married couple. The easiest steps we took for our privacy was to move far away from family, where they can’t just drop in at a moments notice. We are both at an age where we prefer to stay home, watch a movie, and hang out than go out to the bar or other social settings. […] 

The hardest part is how we talk to each other. Little pet names are the hardest but everything else has been pretty easy. The advantage to it is how well we know each other.

[…] [A]s long as there is no abuse no forced situation, and both parties are able to understand what is going on, then [there is] absolutely [nothing wrong with it].

[…] We do have our Tumblr page and the amount of support we have received has been amazing!



New Zealand Judge Punishes Woman For Consenting

This is pointless. I don’t see why the judge considers their family relevant. If he wants the child to grow up better than they did, surely having a cohesive family unit, and not having to shuttle back and forth, would be a step in the right direction. Some GSA couples come from wonderful families. Some do not. When they don’t, I’m not that surprised, considering that their family’s dysfunction was likely the reason they were separated anyway. In such cases people falsely blame the dysfunction because it’s correlated with the separation. (I also get more and more annoyed by judges repeating the stereotype that “incest” equals fathers raping daughters. Even if you only count non-consensual cases, it’s likely the opposite of the truth.)



Mother and son, who conceived a child, are accused of violating probation

There are always more of these.

An Antioch woman and her adult son whose incestuous relationship resulted in a child are accused of violating terms of their probation for convictions of child endangerment last year. Lawyers were back before Contra Costa Superior Court Judge Laurel Lindenbaum yesterday to discuss the latest allegations.

The unusual case was reopened after the county Social Services Department reported receiving a taped phone message in December in which the 45-year-old woman and her son, 24, were discussing custody options for their 3-year-old daughter, conceived through the illegal relationship. Officials believe the defendants were together while the call was made to the county department.

“Somebody heard the message and was convinced it was the guy’s voice in the background,” said prosecutor Paul Sequiera. The Chronicle has not identified the defendants in order to protect the privacy of the girl and five other minor children belonging to the woman. All of the children have been placed in foster care.

Authorities believe mother and son began the incestuous relationship several years ago when he moved back into the family home after having been raised by other relatives for much of his life. Police were alerted in October 1999 when one of the woman’s daughters told a teacher about the relationship.

Although incest charges are rarely filed in California, prosecutors decided they had to act because the illegal relationship produced a child. But when authorities learned last year that the child was not suffering from any long-term genetic disability, the defendants were allowed to plead no contest to child endangerment charges. As part of the plea, they were sentenced to two years in state prison. That term was suspended by Lindenbaum, who agreed to place the defendants on five years probation with an order that they stay away from each other.

Yesterday, Lindenbaum said she would defer making any ruling about the alleged probation violation until June after a custody case involving the defendants’ daughter is concluded. Lawyers said the judge was unlikely to send either defendant to prison for violating a stay-away order unless the conduct had caused harm to the girl.

“Basically, Judge Lindenbaum’s attitude is that these people better not do anything that negatively impacts the kid,” said defense attorney Stuart Willis, who represents the son. “But if they want to be in the same room in order to schedule visitation over the phone, I don’t think anyone has a problem with that.” Willis said his client has not been living with his mother. Both defendants sat in different rows of the courtroom audience and did not look at one another while waiting for their case to be called, lawyers said.

Contra Costa Deputy Public Defender Paul Mariano said county officials dislike his client and were eager to report her to the probation department for any violation, however minor. “They were morally offended by the nature of the offense,” Mariano said. “But Judge Lindenbaum treated it appropriately.”



“Irish woman carrying her father’s child claims they’re in love”

Claims“? Really? I assume she would know better than the author what she feels.



Beautiful Woman Denied the Right to Marry the Father of Her Children

From Full Marriage Equality:

I’m a woman living in the UK. I was fostered from a very young age – not sure of the reasons behind this, but I know my mother couldn’t cope and Social Services became involved fairly early on. I was shipped around with my older sister for a few years until we were eventually officially fostered together with permanent foster parents (I was 6 and she was 9). My sister was raised for a short period of time with our older sister, but I never was. We were aware, however, of the existence of both our older sister and our brother, who was a year older than me. Throughout the period we were fostered, there was infrequent contact with our birth mother, though none with our father. Our brother had been allowed to go and live with our birth mother, but was very rarely present during our visits. I did not have a sibling relationship with him at any point.

I eventually married and had three children, but the marriage was not a particularly happy one. We stayed together mainly for financial reasons.

[…] I tried to maintain contact with my sister, but there was no contact with either my older sister or brother throughout any of my teenage years or adult life. I eventually made contact with my sister (the one I was raised with) when my daughter was around 4 months old and we decided to maintain contact. It was during one of these visits that I met my brother, who she had been in touch with (without telling me).

[…] There was an immediate spark, which utterly confused me. Upon meeting him for the first time, I felt like I was meeting a boyfriend, which disconcerted me somewhat but did not feel wrong. We quickly found that we had similar interests and became very close very quickly. I maintained contact with him once I went home by phone and msn, but we still did not feel like siblings. I felt like I was in the throes of a new relationship. We communicated every day for a few months, meeting up in person whenever we could (he lived several hundred miles away). At one of these visits, we consummated our relationship. We had talked about this very vaguely before this, but it took us both by surprise when it happened. Even so, it was something we both wanted and did not feel wrong at all – in fact, it felt like it was meant to be.

[…] We are in an exclusive relationship. I have no sibling feelings towards him whatsoever and we are currently living together as a couple. The only people who know the truth about us are our sister, birth mother, my foster mother and a couple of close friends. We would never feel in a position to share this information with others, given the legal situation. They were naturally shocked at first but have come to accept us for who we are.

My brother and I now have two children together, both of whom are healthy. […] We were a little concerned when I fell pregnant with our first child, as we had heard all the rumours about genetic conditions etc, but these fears proved to be unfounded. We had all the checks done that we could during the pregnancy and everything came back normal. We were immensely relieved to find that both children were born normal.

[…] It can be difficult sometimes, as we have had to lie about how we met, etc. to people around us, as we could not afford for the truth to come out. We also had a lot of issues with my ex-husband, who would make life impossible for us if he found out and would ensure that my children were taken away from me. Without going into detail, he almost found out about us and it caused huge problems and almost ended our relationship for safety reasons. We could not afford for the UK authorities to get wind of our relationship, hence the secrecy.

[…] It does annoy me when I read comments from people who have no idea what they’re talking about, i.e. your child will definitely be born with problems etc.

It also annoys me when I read comments from others in the GSA community who say you cannot have a successful relationship. I think we are living proof that this is untrue. We have been together now for 7 years and are still going strong.

[…] If we were able to get married, we would do so in a heartbeat. We are both disappointed that this will never be a reality and are saddened by the fact that our relationship would never be accepted by society. We would be considered deviants, when in fact we have done nothing wrong. Social Services in this country would consider us a danger to our own children, which seems utterly bizarre. Just because we fell in love does not make us paedophiles or sexual deviants.

We feel it is unfair that same-sex couples are now being actively encouraged to adopt etc., when we are not even allowed to simply be together, are considered sexual deviants and could, in theory, have our children removed from us and given to a same-sex couple. Don’t get me wrong, we have no issues with same-sex couples or gays and lesbians at all, but we do have an issue when we hear bigoted remarks not only from the same people who attack gays and lesbians, but from some gays and lesbians as well when it comes to people in our situation. You would think that given that they were persecuted too at one point, they would have more of an understanding.



“Would-be draftee Tony Washington’s NFL future is being derailed by his sad past”

Unfortunately his past continues to haunt his career.

Tony Washington
In a league of second chances, why can’t NFL combine sensation Tony Washington get any at all? It’s a story of dark family secrets, justice unserved and the elusive power of redemption.

[…] On May 9, 2003, Washington pleaded guilty to having consensual sex with his biological sister, Caylen. He was 16, she was 15.

“Incest,” he says, looking straight ahead.

He says he didn’t plan to do it. He was a teenager. Unstrung. Unsupervised. His world was at war. He was scared. Isolated. Except she was there, the two of them best friends, close as book pages. They loved each other, trusted each other. And one day that tipped into something more. Something neither one felt was wrong in the moment. “We were just sitting there, and it was like, ‘Do you want to?'” he says. There was no discussion. “We did it. And it was like, ‘OK, what’s next?’ We never talked about it after that.”

Both say it happened only once more. The two never kissed. Never shared true intimacy. Just spontaneous, ill-conceived connections. Needs met when few others were.

A few months after they first had sex, Washington’s sister went out one night to meet somebody. Her boyfriend, she says. Johns, the police suspected. Soon after, Washington’s phone rang. His sister had been picked up by the cops. He needed to come get her, and he needed to come right away. “All I knew was my sister was in trouble,” he says. “So when I showed up, and they asked me about the two of us, I said yes. I didn’t know it was illegal.”

As it turned out, according to Caylen’s account, the cops had been asking a lot of questions about her home life, digging to find out how a 15-year-old girl ends up on the streets. (The Magazine left multiple messages seeking comment from the Jefferson Parish Sheriff’s Office and district attorney but received no answer.) Caylen denied she was a prostitute. So they asked her if there were issues at home. Was that why she ran off? Had anyone in her family touched her, abused her? For more than three hours, she stuck to her story: She left home to meet her boyfriend. She adored her brother. He was a good kid who took care of her. Their family wasn’t like that.

More officers came into the interrogation room. Caylen was alone. She had no lawyer, just her and a passel of cops and detectives, and it got later and later into the night, and she was hungry and tired. It was then, four hours in, she says, that they started talking about jail.

Caylen did not want to go to jail. She wanted to leave. She says the cops promised her that if she confessed, everyone could go home, that she and her family would get free counseling and all this ugliness would end, and everyone could sleep in their own beds. They said it was her choice. Did she want to end up in prison? Her brother too?

Caylen folded. She said things that she insists now were “half-true” or “complete lies.” She nodded her head yes to every question and said whatever she thought they wanted to hear.

“And then, like that, I was in jail,” Tony says.



“Incest siblings spared jail”

Some relief coming out of Zimbabwe, a place in the news frequently for prosecuting consanguinamorous couples.

A Harare magistrate has sentenced Dzivarasekwa siblings who engaged in a sexual affair and bore a child to an 18-month wholly suspended prison sentence. Magistrate Aidonia Masawi sentenced Ashley Feremenga,19, and Robson Feremenga, 21, to 18 months imprisonment before suspending nine months on condition of good behaviour. A further nine months were set aside on condition the two perform 630 hours of community service.

Ashley and Robson, who are brother and sister, were convicted for having sexual intercourse within a prohibited degree or relationship. Masawi considered that accused persons were “first time offenders who should be given a chance to reflect on their wrong doings.”

In aggravation, prosecutor Liberty Gono urged the courts to pass a stiff sentence. “This is an unnatural offence of which accused persons were convicted both morally and culturally,” he said. “They were fully aware of their wrong doings and indeed stayed as husband and wife, and have a two-year-old daughter and eight months pregnancy. The court must pass a sentence showing clearly that their action was unlawful.”

Gono proved that Ashley and Robson, who both reside at 6023 Dzivarasekwa Extension in Harare, fell in love sometime in 2010. The two had sexual intercourse on several occasions and had a child together. The siblings continued indulging in sexual intercourse resulting in Ashley carrying her brother’s second pregnancy. The offence came to light when their father Jonasi Feremenga was advised of Ashley and Robson’s relationship and reported the matter to the police.



Another Couple Denied the Freedom to Marry

From Full Marriage Equality:

I’m in my early twenties, live in the UK, and have no children. […] [My lover] is my half-brother. […] [We are b]oyfriend and girlfriend, but also best friends. […] We did not grow up together. We only met a few years ago. Now we live with our father.

[…] I was attracted to him from the moment we met. It was a mixture of lust and curiosity. I was very surprised, confused and ashamed of these feelings. […] [Having sex is] just a natural way of showing our love. […] A few close friends know, and they accept it. We sat them down and explained the situation to them in full and that seemed to help.

[…] The first time was spontaneous. We were watching the TV, cuddling, and then one thing lead to another. Prior to that, we had indulged in foreplay and oral sex. My brother started that. At the very start, it was touching using being drunk as an excuse (not that it was ever questioned.) Then I visited him in his home city when we lived apart, and decided that we’d share a hotel room and a double bed which lead to foreplay, but nothing more as I was wary of pushing the situation too soon. It was only when he lived here that things turned sexual because I couldn’t hold back anymore. […] We’d both waited so long that we couldn’t resist any longer.

[…] I think [when you’re siblings] you’re less likely to take each other for granted and therefore the relationship is better for it. The disadvantage is, of course, having to sneak around and not be totally yourselves unless you’re away from home.

[…] [Critics should m]ind [their] own business. It’s completely consensual and the world would be a happier place if everyone learned to accept and love a little more. […] We have discussed [getting married] and yes we would. […] [We plant to e]xplore the world together and move in together by ourselves. […] Live your life. Don’t care what anyone else thinks. So long as you’re not harming anyone, go for it!



Another Marriage Denied Equality Under the Law

From Full Marriage Equality:

Yes, my brother is my full blood brother. He’s a year and four months younger than me, and we have no other siblings. […] [M]y brother and I live as husband and wife, and it does include lovemaking, I see him as both my brother and lover. Those two roles are inseparable; at times he needs his sister, at other times he needs his lover and/or wife, so I fulfill both those roles in his life, just as he does the same in my life. It’s a bit hard to explain, but yes he’s my soul mate.

[…] Yes we were raised by our biological parents, and my brother and I always got along extremely well together. […] I guess I was around 14 when I first started having sexual feelings toward my brother; I started to see him as the boy in my life as opposed to just my brother. […] I made the first move, and it was planned on my part. I took small steps at first holding his hand, hugging and trying to kiss him. I was feeling I wanted him as more my boyfriend than my brother. […] It did progress in stages; it wasn’t a sudden event. I guess you could say I slowly seduced him. I was falling in love with him.

[…] Yes, we are exclusive with each other. He’s been the only romantic interest in my life, but I am bi-sexual and have experiences with other girls in my life. My brother knows this about me and has no problems with it. I’ve never had any sexual feelings for anyone else in my family.

[…] I don’t see anything taboo in our relationship. The sneaking around we did when we were teenagers was a bit thrilling; also the fact that we were doing something most people would never dream of doing is a bit thrilling too, but all in all I see us as just normal.

[…] Our lawyer knows the truth. The paperwork I had to fill out to get custody of our child required me to turn over certain documents. He supports us. My brother’s workplace also knows we live together and I’m dependent on him, but they don’t know we’re a romantic couple; it’s for insurance coverage only. Yes, we can act as a couple/family in public as the people around us know us as an unwed couple only, not brother and sister. I don’t use my real name for anything.

[…] Brothers and sisters can and do fall deeply in love with each other. We’re only human and we lead normal decent lives; we’re productive members of society and just like anyone else, just trying to get by. And I’m hardly a victim. I do what I do out of love.

[…] Yes, I’d marry my brother in a heartbeat. We have exchanged our own vows with each other and in our eyes we are married to one another. […] My plans are to live with my brother for the rest of my life and grow old together.



A Lifelong Couple Denied the Right to Marry

From Full Marriage Equality:

[…] I’m still a teenager. [FYI, this interview’s from 2011, so he should be in college now.] I’ve lived in [a southern US state] as far back as I can remember. I do well in school, am largely involved in my Church, and I’ve always placed my family and friends first.

[…] [My sister is] my twin. Even though that makes us fraternal, we still look alike, except she has a more feminine figure. […] Before I found out I was in love with her, she was my best friend. My parents seemed to not care whatsoever about how close we were, as they never seemed to see anything wrong with us never separating unless it was absolutely necessary, or the hand-holding, or even the sleeping in the same bed. In fact, they rarely paid us any attention at all. That’s probably why they didn’t know that she would kiss my lips every night before bed. I didn’t know there was anything wrong with that, but it never came up either, so they never found out. I guess that even though our relationship is more true and more developed, it was easier when all I cared about was being at her side. It was a childhood I wouldn’t trade for anything. We grew up together and we are currently living together with my older brother, older sister, mother, and father.

[…] I couldn’t say when I first fell in love with her, but I first realized I was in love with her when I found out exactly what making out meant (this was after we started doing that every other night). I didn’t know exactly what to make of it, but that night she started to make out with me and I didn’t stop her. I didn’t feel bad or the slightest bit of remorse. In fact, this was the first time she ever turned me on. I suddenly looked at her in an entirely new light. It was like a flash-flood in my mind. I started to realize how much I loved every bit of her. I wasn’t surprised by these feelings, but I was surprised by their extent; how much I loved her.

[…] We are monogamous, but she recently asked me to start trying to find a “girlfriend” as a cover-up. I was reluctant and tried to insist that I wanted only her, but she made the point that if we were caught we could never be together. She was right, and I got one, but she broke up with me shortly afterwards for refusing to kiss her. It helped for a while though, I think.

[…] My older brother found out about us, actually. […] He noticed it when my sis started finding more things for us to do together, but when she got us matching yin-yang jackets with reverse color scheme and we started wearing them all the time, he really started to think we were getting too close. I guess he was spying on us and caught us one night having sex. At first he didn’t know what to do. He didn’t speak to us for a couple days, and he suggested we “get help” when he finally did. We argued for a while, then he took another day to think. He was a good big bro in the end and said we should do ‘whatever you believe is right in your heart of hearts’. […] I think he’s ultimately interested in our happiness, but as far as our relationship goes, I’m not sure exactly what he thinks.

[…] The love-making side of the relationship to me feels the most natural part. There really is no other way to truly express our love for each other. While sex as a whole is normally seen as dirty and incest is taboo, no feeling is as pure […]. It’s not easy to describe, but I’m overwhelmed by some unique feeling of unison, as if we were the same person. My thoughts are normally difficult to understand when it’s happening, and I feel an uncontrollable sense of joy when it’s happening. Since it’s so unique there’s not much to compare it to, which makes it even harder to describe. I guess the closest word that comes to mind is ecstasy.

[…] We’ve been talking about moving somewhere together and having her use a fake last name until we’re married when then, ironically, it will change back.

[…] The way I ultimately decided to be with her was when a girl told me about her twin, Jesse, who had committed suicide when their relationship was discovered and they were forced to separate. I realized how similar she sounded and knew one thing for certain. Nothing should stop true love. People are born into families not of their own will, and just because someone was born with them shouldn’t mean they can’t love each other.

[…] I want [people] to open their eyes and mind. If they would just for a moment think logically, they would see my side. I have asked people what’s wrong with our relationship, but all they say is that it’s wrong or disgusting without giving any reasons. Something they seem to forget is that stopping true love is also morally wrong. I believe they’re the kind of people that people in the future will look back on the same way they look at people who were against interracial marriage.

[…] We used to talk about marriage when we were kids, before we knew of any problems that might create. Now we know it’s illegal and we still want to. I would love nothing more than to marry her.

[…] We met [a similar couple] online, but then found out they were in the area. We met in a park, and even used a code phrase before really talking. They’re not twins, but their relationship is similar to ours. I love to talk with them. It’s always nice to know you’re not the only one. I already knew that, of course, but it’s more tangible in person.

[…] I’ve found this to be the best thing that ever happened to me. The only thing that could make it better is the promise of marriage.



“I had a romantic/sexual relationship with my sister”

Reddit can be an interesting place:

  • I was 20-21 when [my relationship with my sister] happened, she was 17-18. The bulk of it occurred during the summer after she graduated from high school and I from college.
  • We were physically separated by a messy divorce as young children. We typically only saw each other once or twice a year after that, but kept in contact via phone and eventually e-mail.
  • We don’t have any other siblings (or any cousins for that matter, both parents were only children).
  • I think we would both say it was a very positive experience, physically and psychologically. No regrets, more or less.
  • She is not a redditor, but she knows I am writing this and is fine with it. We’ve never discussed this with anyone else but she is okay with me sharing our experience anonymously.


  • Yes I know how sick and wrong this is and yadda yadda yadda. Please don’t flood the thread or my inbox to this effect unless you have an interesting point to make about it that I probably haven’t already had nightmares about friends or family saying to me when they find out our “secret.”
  • […] We’ve discussed our experience with each other in pretty good detail since it happened, so I can probably speak for her some of the time, but not all.

[…] She found out that her boyfriend was cheating on her shortly before the prom. She took it pretty hard…she always had trust issues/fear of male rejection growing up so it wasn’t easy for her. I was already planning to visit since it was after my semester ended, so I was like “hey buck up, I’ll take you to prom.” I was not thinking/hoping we would get sexual at this point.

The evening went fine, I felt like we had exchanged a couple of flirtier-than-normal glances but tried not to think anything of it. Afterwards we went back to mom’s house (she had planned to be away on a business trip when she found out I was planning to visit…see what I said above about emotional unavailability). We had a bottle of wine and just had a long conversation about college, parents, ourselves, etc. Just a friendly chat. She starts nodding off so I help her up to bed, then I notice she’s crying. So we start talking again and she kind of lets it all out about how awful/ugly/etc. she feels about the boyfriend cheating on her. I tell her he’s an ass, don’t worry about it, high school is over, etc., and give her a peck on the forehead. She gives me a peck on the forehead back (our usual childhood show of affection), but it’s a little bit longer than usual. We’re both kind of drunk, so this happens a couple more times and soon enough we’re making out. The rest, as they say, is history.

[…] She was a virgin (I was not). The next morning we of course found ourselves naked and cuddled up together, which is kind of a hard thing to just ignore. I woke up first, I kind of jumped which woke her up. I apologized for “what happened,” she said she was okay with it and asked if I was okay with it. I said yes, and we ended up having sex again that morning and then a couple more times that day (you know how it is when you first hook up with someone). From then on we were “hooked,” so to speak. It was surprisingly unawkward.

[…] During one of our summer visits a few years before this happened, we had one of those “let’s practice kissing” nights while she was visiting me and our dad. We were both a little bit excited about it, but not in an overtly sexual way. I did masturbate about that a few times after it happened, but there wasn’t a constant, years long fantasy that finally became reality or anything. I kind of felt gross about masturbating to it afterwards, so I wouldn’t say I had a serious incest fetish or anything. It was like “yeah, she’s hot. I shouldn’t be thinking like that though……but she is hot, and I have this boner…”

[…] I think that us not being raised together played a huge part in it.

[…] [I]t eventually ended itself due to circumstance. She was about to start college where I had just graduated, so she subleased my roommate’s room during the summer. We had sex a lot (usually multiple times a day) while we lived together, but when I moved away for professional school, that was kind of the end. We’ve hooked up a couple of times since then, but it hasn’t been the same so we both consider it over.

[…] It’s been a long time since we had any kind of sexual encounter. We talk about it with each other occasionally still (since there’s really no one else we’re comfortable talking to about it…), but there hasn’t been any “spark” in a while. I don’t see us being anything other than typical siblings in the future.

[…] We’ve agreed not to discuss it with anyone, and I won’t betray her confidence. She would probably want to know this hypothetical fiancee pretty well too before agreeing to let her in on it. I would like to be able to tell someone else, but we’re both going to have to trust that person enough first. If I decide to marry someone but my sister doesn’t want her to know about it, I’m going to respect that. It’s complicated.

[…] I do wish there were less of a taboo about it though, I think some people could benefit from there being an open and honest conversation on the matter.



Yet Another Couple Denied the Freedom to Marry

From Full Marriage Equality:

I was raised in a normal family, with plenty of guidance in accepting people even if I didn’t agree with situations or choices. However, I would say I craved love. I have a lot of love and affection to give and spend a vast amount of my time helping others in need.

I found out about my situation early into my teens – that the man who had raised me was not my biological father, but someone else was – I shall call him Chris. Chris had many commitment issues and I had many half siblings, only two of which welcomed me. They were excommunicated from the family circle, so to speak, and had been neglected by our genetic father. I didn’t trace my half siblings until I was into my 20s, not because I didn’t want to, but due to the lack of resources and the spitefulness of my mother.

I currently live with my half brother and our children (his) & (mine). We’re together happily, like any other couple.

[…] I tracked my [half-brother] via the Internet and contacted him. He had been looking for me all those years; he had remembered me. He had a different mother and my mother had left my father so we had been only around each other the minimal amount of time, to begin with anyway. [My half-brother] is older than me by 6 years but we are on an even wavelength with the same interests and hobbies.

[…] Before him, I didn’t know what was missing but I knew I didn’t quite feel like I belonged with anybody or that I fit in with people. When he came into my life it was like the whole world had stopped and for once everything was perfect. I didn’t need to question anything; he was exactly what my life had been missing. I was home, my heart was at ease and I finally knew what love was in its most amazing form.
The first meeting was quite funny, I’d been told stories about this person and created this illusion in my head of this rough and rugged full-of-anger person. But I stood shocked that day. This man was sweet and thoughtful – everything my illusion was not. He was perfect. However, there was no attraction at that moment. Just a perfect connection.

[…] We both, after about 11 months, were feeling something but neither had confirmed this with the other. It was an evening he had been around and I had already had vivid dreams of him and this yearning for him was so powerful. I had carried out research and found Genetic Sexual Attraction information and forums. This made me feel normal but I still didn’t know how to tell him for fear of repercussions. I was playing around on You Tube one night whilst he was cleaning up and came across a song, “Love Him Out Loud.” […] He could never possibly know, but he did at that moment […]. We talked about our feelings for 4 days before anything happened. But when it did – I’d never felt more alive. We both played our part and embarking on our relationship was a mutual decision.

[…] This love – the connection is so intense but yet so beautiful. We feel as if we have been made only for each other. In honesty, neither of us have ever felt this kind of love. To describe it, it’s like the moment I looked down on my newborn son with such an overwhelming intense unconditional love. I’ve never felt so complete, so in love with another human or even had such restraint, such patience in disagreements. Instead, we have more understanding. Even now, down the line, it still feels like a new love, it hasn’t dulled but grown. We are physically closer and emotionally closer and I can’t imagine ever having this bond with any other human. He is the yang to my yin, my twin flame, my best friend. I never felt confused or deluded. It felt right and still does.

[…] He is my brother first and my partner second. I can distinguish between the two. We live together and let others assume whatever they want to. We want to marry and be together properly but stupid ancient laws prevent us. Yet we are at our most happiest together.

[…] No one is aware we are in a relationship. To everyone, we are brother and sister. If we are visiting somewhere new on holiday, perhaps we can be husband and wife then. I limit the information I give people, keeping them at arms length. […] They need proof and unless they are with us they won’t have any.

[…] I would love to tell them this: I have been a victim to men all my life in every cruel way. My [half-brother] may be a relative of sorts but he is the only man I could trust with my life. He would never do anything I didn’t agree to or want. People can think this is disgusting or disturbed, but in reality when you have suffered as I have, you realise this isn’t a heinous crime, and should never be punished as such. He didn’t know me as a sister nor did I know him as a brother. He is a man that I fell in love with. […] We hurt no one. […] It’s a man and woman together regardless of who they are to one another. This goes the same for homosexual couples; they share love and happiness. Should this not be all that matters in a dire world we live in? People need to be more open minded.

If caught in my country my [half-brother] could face up to 14 years in prison but yet a man who rapes or molests 1-3 girls under 15 with a 15 year age gap will serve just 3 years! […] My brother’s only “crime” is love. There are worse things in this world than being in love with a relative or someone of the same sex.



Australian Couple Denied Their Freedom to Marry

From Full Marriage Equality:

[I and my brother] are both in our late thirties, Caucasian, and live in Australia. […] [We both] come from middle income families with many brothers and sisters, some half, some full and some through our adoptions. […] I was married for a long time. The relationship dissolved on good grounds. It wasn’t long after the marriage end that our relationship started. We live with my children.

[…] We had no contact growing up after we were given up for adoption. I was a preschooler and he was a toddler when we were put in a children’s home. We didn’t meet again until our late teens when the adoption laws in Australia changed and allowed us to find each other.

[…] [Our becoming involved] was definitely a sudden event from my point of view. He says that he had been thinking about it and fantasizing about it for a while. He made the first move in my opinion, but he likes to remind me that I didn’t argue with him. We had both probably had a few too many drinks that night which helped to let our guards down. My memory of the night is a little more sketchy than his as I don’t really drink. […] [I felt n]ervous, curious and excited. I wanted to touch him and much as he did me. To feel the closeness that we were both looking for at the time. […] Legally we both knew that it shouldn’t be happening. It has never felt wrong. When we are together it just feels right.

[…] [We’ve b]een ‘together’ five years committed to each other for three and living as a married couple for the past year. He is my brother, best friend, partner, lover and the only person on the planet that can push me to the point that I want to strangle him while I am curled up on his chest.I can’t imagine being without him and he has said me to me that we would run away if we had to. […] I am the same to him as he is to me. I am his rock and he is mine.

[…] One friend found out at a rather difficult moment of my life. She didn’t take it well. She had always hoped that they could have a relationship. She had always had a crush on him and had a one night stand once. She threatened to call child protection and the police. I had to convince her that it wasn’t going on and now don’t speak to her anymore. As for family they have had their suspicions but have never had any proof. No one knows us as a couple and we don’t tend to be able to go away as I am primary caregiver of my kids.

[…] The disadvantages are huge, such as the inability to behave like a normal couple around family and friends, and not being able to tell people how happy you are. The family are constantly telling us that we should find ourselves someone special, that we don’t want to be alone all our lives. You can tell them a thousand times that you are happy but they just say ‘yes right now you are but what about later on?’ On the flip side I think that the advantage is the level of trust. We know each other better than we know ourselves some times. He has my back and I have his. We protect each other from the outside world.  Our bedroom is our bubble. No one can hurt us in here. 

[…] I am neither the prey nor predator and nor is he. We are both very willing participants. If people disapprove that is their business. We don’t impart our beliefs on their lives so they can butt out of ours. We don’t ask for their opinions or permission. Nor do we push our choice on anyone else.

[…] One day we would like to ‘run away’ i.e. create some distance so that we can try and live a somewhat normal existence. TRAVEL!!! He once told me that he looks forward to walking around Venice, holding my hand and kissing me if he chooses to without fear of being caught. I can’t wait to feel that sort of freedom.

[…] You can’t always choose who you fall in love with, who makes you feel safe and sexy, who you can’t be without, who you would move heaven and earth for, who you would give your life for. We can’t change how we feel about each other nor do we want to. Who has the right to tell us that we can’t be together?  Does anyone have the right to make us miserable by forcing us to live separate lives?  What is anyone going to gain from that?  I love him with all of my being and he loves me with every thing he has.  That’s all that really matters.



She Has Been Denied Her Freedom to Marry

From Full Marriage Equality:

I’m 37, I live in the eastern US, I am the mother of one son, he’s 18 and will be 19 in March. I work in commercial real estate. My son is in college. I currently live alone, my son stays with me on weekends.

[…] I became pregnant at 18, and gave birth shortly after I was 19. I decided to give him up for adoption shortly after I found out I was pregnant. I don’t believe in abortion and knew I couldn’t raise him on my own. I was only with his father for one night. I’m not proud of that, and it bothers me to think I can’t tell my son about his father, because I don’t know much about him myself.

[…] He was asked by his adoptive parents if he wanted to know about his biological mother and he told them he did. They told him my name and he searched for me when he was about 17. It took him a year but when he found my address he sent a letter and then we talked on the phone and by email. We arranged to meet when he had a week off from school in the spring.

[…] I was nervous. We had talked on the phone and by email for several months, but I was still anxious. I had all these thoughts going through my head. What do I say? What should I do? The day before he arrived at times I was so nervous I was shaking. He arrived at my house earlier than planned; he was supposed to get there the next day, so when I opened the door, I didn’t expect it would be him. When I saw him, all my worry just vanished in an instant. I was so happy to finally meet him I couldn’t stop talking or sit still for a second.

[…] I realized soon after I met him how handsome I thought he was. At first I thought, of course you think he’s handsome, he’s your son, all mothers feel that way. Later on I started realizing I didn’t just think he was handsome, I thought he was sexy. At first I put the idea in the back of my mind, and didn’t want to acknowledge it. But I was acting on it, I was actually flirting with him. I would do whatever I thought was sexy, I would flip my hair, or lick my lips. I was even wearing more revealing clothing and trying to push my breasts out or show my legs whenever I was near him. And I was touching him, a lot, I would hold his hand, or rub his arm or leg, and when we would hug I was trying to pull him into me. But even though I was doing all this, I wasn’t considering sex with him; well not consciously. […] I wanted him to find me desirable. […] I just wanted to have this particular man in me, because I wanted who he is, deep inside of who I am, in every way possible, physically, emotionally and spiritually. And I knew only sex could bring us together in that way.

I don’t know if he was considering sex before it happened, although he’s told me he found me very attractive when we met, and he was struggling with his feelings because he thought I was hot, and felt guilty for feeling that way.

We both finally acted on our feelings about a week after we first met. He was staying with me at my house, and he was going to bed and I was giving him a hug goodnight, then he gave me a kiss. It was on the lips, but it was quick enough to be totally innocent. Then we were looking at each other for a few seconds and we kissed again, only this time it was long and very passionate.

[…] The feelings I had the first time are hard to describe: a mixture of excitement and nervousness. It was a lot like the way I felt when I lost my virginity. My head was reeling with desire and emotion, and one half of my brain had all these questions like, Is this really going to happen? Am I ready for this? Should I go through with it? and the other half of my brain was thinking, just relax and enjoy this, it’s what you want. I never thought it was possible before that, and once it was possible, the idea of it was so new and strange that I sort of didn’t know how to deal with it. But I feel my decision to allow it to happen was one of the best decisions I ever made.

I agree with those people who say it’s the best relationship and best sex ever. I totally understand why they think that as well. I see sex as a way to connect with someone in a very meaningful way, and it’s the closest physical relationship you can have with a person. So for me, to have that with the person I’m closest to emotionally is literally mind-blowing. I also see sex with my son as therapeutic; I think being separated from a family member creates these psychological and physical wounds. For me, the only thing that helped heal the wounds was the physical and emotional intimacy that comes from sex. And I truly understand the term making love, because I feel that’s what we’re really doing. I admit sometimes it’s fun, and maybe a little erotic, but it’s never just sex, it’s always “making love”. Another woman said that being intimate with her son gave her this “sense of being fulfilled” and I know what she means. I felt the same way, my whole life I had lost all the men I loved, all of my past relationships had failed, I was getting older and for a while I didn’t think I would ever find love. But the moment he entered me I knew I found the love I had been missing.

[…] We have been together for a little less than a year. Our relationship is stronger than any other I’ve had. It gets better every day, because our relationship is new enough that we discover something new almost everyday, but it’s been going on long enough so we both know what the other likes and we’re comfortable enough with each other and not afraid to be ourselves.

[…] I see us as both [family and partners]. I see him as my son, and I want to take care of him, and want the best for him, and I also see him as my lover, and when he’s not around I miss him, and fantasize about him. In the same day I think about making his favorite food for dinner, because I want to do something nice for my son, and I think about wearing something sexy for him later when we’re in bed.

[…] I realize most people would find the idea of sex with a family member very strange and repulsive. But for me, the fact that he’s my son doesn’t hinder the intimacy, in fact, I think because of the deep emotional bond we have, it enhances the intimacy. Most people realize sex with someone you love is so much greater than sex with someone you don’t, and there’s no man on Earth I love more than him, and when we make love all those feelings I have just rush to the surface, and the emotions seem to increase the physical sensations. It’s beyond incredible. Sex with other men was like running through sprinklers in summer, sex with my son is like jumping into a cold pool on a hot day, every nerve in my body is suddenly awakened and pushed to the edge.

[…] Nobody knows the full nature of our relationship. Part of me hates that. I want to tell everyone, because I’m so happy with him, and I love him so much and it bothers me that I have to keep something so great a secret, like the greatest thing to ever happen to me is something to be ashamed of. And part of me would prefer to keep it secret because I know it’s so much easier and safer for both of us that way.

[…] We have gone on little vacations as a couple, and will act like a couple if we’re someplace where nobody knows us. A woman I befriended on one of these trips just assumed we were a couple from our behavior, and because I’m twice my son’s age, she complimented me on being unafraid to date a younger man. We kept in touch and I want to tell her the truth about us, but am afraid of losing her friendship.

[…] We’re careful to avoid physical contact if we’re with anyone who knows us, or in public near my home. I think the secrecy is the biggest disadvantage about the relationship; I hate the sneaking around.

[…] That is so far from the truth[, that I am preying on him]. I actually talked with my son about his feelings after we were together, he said he was never happier. He changed his life to move closer to me, and ended his relationship with his girlfriend at the time because he knew he wanted to be with me more than anyone. We were also both adults when this started, our relationship is as far from child abuse as rape is from consensual sex.

[…] Yes, [I would marry him] in an instant.

[…] To those who know someone who has these feelings, try not to be judgmental. I know society has this thing that says it’s wrong to even think this way, but don’t listen to that, think about how you feel about that person. Are they a good person? Do you care about them and love them? If so, that’s more important than what society thinks, and hopefully it will help you be more sympathetic to their feelings.



“I am sleeping with my biological brother”

Again Reddit provideth (a perfect example of how social stigma makes relationships unnecessarily complicated and difficult):

I am 19, my brother is 21. We’ve been having sex since I was 16. Absolutely no one knows, I’ve never even told a friend and I would like to keep our identities private. If our parents or family members found out, our lives would be destroyed. I also initiated it.

[…] Yes, it’s a big problem because it could hurt the people we love and it’s illegal. It’s a problem because the future is unknown and it could hurt our relationship. Right now, we are hiding it pretty well. We are very happy when we are together and we love each other. It’s really complicated and it’s not black and white.

  • […] being with him compared to other guys, does it have a different, more personal feeling to it? i say this based on how smelling your partner can be a big part of the experience – having it be someone who is family, is that different, does it feel more like an extension of yourself?

Yes. As I said in another part of this thread, I have slept with one other person and it was very different. It was enjoyable but most of the time, I was thinking of my brother. It felt weird. I know that must sound really strange but I wanted it to be my brother and not this person.

  • also, did you guys have any unusually close experiences together as children?

Yes. My Mother was in a car accident when we were younger and she was immobile for a little over a year. My brother mostly took care of me and we leaned on each other quite a bit. My father was always busy, never really in our lives. He’s a great guy but he’s really focused on his work.

[…] It did start out as experimenting and I think it’s mainly my fault. We had to share a bed, as we had relatives staying with us for a week. I’ll spare you the details but I woke up on top of him and I started fondling him. He didn’t ask me to stop and we started fooling around since that day. It just progressed over time.

  • […] What view do you and your brother have on this and about eachother?

We both know it’s really fucked up but we both enjoy it, so we don’t stop. We’ve only ever cared about hurting our family.

  • Does this interfere with relationships with others?

In the beginning no. We would continue having relationships with other people. However, lately he does not want me to be with anyone but him. It’s become an issue.

[…] He doesn’t want me to sleep with anyone else and it’s been making him uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable and insanely jealous are two different things.

[…] This is very difficult to explain. I love my brother, like a sister loves her brother normally. I am protective over him, I care about him and his choices and I’m proud of him too. We also argue like siblings. However, I do feel love for him in the sense of a romantic love. It’s become stronger over time. I think that’s why we started kissing as much as we have lately. It’s turning into something more. I’m sorry if that doesn’t make much sense. I don’t really think it does anyway.

[…] I don’t think we could [run away together]. It’s definitely not an option right now, as we are both in college and depend on our parents for financial support.

[…] [My brother’s] always been understanding and he knows that our relationship (as screwed up as it may be) is not normal and we can never have a normal relationship.

[…] We love each other and we enjoy having sex. Should I stop because it makes you feel uncomfortable? We should stop because it could end badly. I don’t know the future but we are enjoying ourselves and not hurting anyone.

[…] [What if we’re meant to be together?] I don’t have the answer to that. It’s sad all around but we try. We both know it will have to end someday and it’s not just about sex for us. We really do care and love each other but it would ruin the lives of our family members if they found out.

[…] I don’t know how common it is. This is the first I’m ever talked about it and even with the negative comments, it still feels good to let it off my chest.

  • […] If there wasn’t so much of a taboo against it, and of course the legality, would you be more open about it and possibly turn it into a legitimate relationship? In the way that you’d debate marriage, etc.

Yes, I’m sure we would. We have fun together. It’s not just about sex but we make each other laugh, we hardly argue. We have good relationship. He’s an awesome person.
And thank you for sharing how you would feel. I know that not everyone out there would be immediately disgusted (at least I’m hoping) and I hope too, that they would see me for what kind of person I am, instead of immediately jumping to conclusions.

[…] My parents are awesome, I really don’t think there is anything they could of done to prevent it.

[…] I’m sure my brother and I would stay close no matter what. I think that if our parents found out, they would be heartbroken more than anything but I don’t think they would kick us out or hate us. They would probably ask us to stop and seek help. Our parents are pretty cool people and I couldn’t see them disowning us.

However, I know it would change everything and it would destroy them, I’m sure. We will do everything to make sure, that they would never find out.

[…] I have had boyfriends, I have also slept with someone else and I do get hit on frequently. I’d rather be with my brother at the moment, than with some other guy. But who knows? I might meet someone better than my brother … haven’t yet, but it could happen.

[…] I’ve slept with one other person and strangely it felt really weird to me. I wanted my brother … it’s really fucked up to read that. I don’t know.

I know that he has slept with other women. He’s very attractive and has dated a lot of girls. I don’t know how I feel about it and try not to think about it honestly.

[…] It’s more like I just enjoy having sex with someone who happens to be my brother. He’s attractive and we love/care for each other. There is definitely a thrill to hiding it and sneaking around. We have definitely found creative places to fool around in.

[…] I was taking a shower and my brother came in to fool around with me. He thought that our parents had already left that morning to work, however my Dad came back home because he left his cell. […] [M]y Dad knocked on the door. Considering the situation, I stayed calm and yelled, “What do you want”. He was looking for my brother and said he couldn’t find him anywhere and that his car was parked in the driveway. I lied and said he went to “Jon’s” house down the street. Luckily, our Dad never went to check on him.

Another time was when we were at our Grandparent’s house and we had to share one of those old pull out couches. We started to have sex and my Grandmother walked in the room and asked out loud where her remote to her TV was. We just paused and laid quietly and she walked out of the room. She even looked at our bed but I guess because she was old and she has cataracts, she couldn’t see very well. She must of thought we were asleep. That was pretty scary.

There were other times but [they’re] not that interesting. It usually involved one us quickly putting our clothes on and running into the next room.

[…] Sometimes I think it’s amazing that we have kept this a secret for such a long time too. […] [P]eople can hide things from their parents for years. We successfully did and if they have had any suspicions, they have never told us.

  • […] Have you ever felt that friends/family might suspect anything at all between you and your brother?

Sometimes I wonder if my friends suspect anything because I turn down a lot of guys and I’m always with him (brother) but they have never mentioned anything.

[…] You have to understand, that it’s not like we sit next to each other in our parent’s home, holding hands. We act (even when alone) like brother and sister. We laugh and joke around. Were NEVER romantic in public, ever. So, I don’t think anyone would know, unless they were in the bedroom with us.

[…] We don’t do anything obvious, like hold hands or kiss but we do laugh and joke around together in front of our friends. He sometimes picks me up and spins me around but I think to the outside, we act just like siblings. We’re not affectionate in front of others at all.

  • […] Do you ever think about what this will be like in the future, when you’ve stopped the sexual relationship and maybe both have your own spouses/children? Will there be awkwardness?

I’ve thought about it and we have talked. We know we should end it but we don’t want to right now. Like I said, I don’t have all the answers and I’m confused about what I should do. We love each other, we enjoy sex and being close.

With that being said, I’m sure it would be awkward but oddly, we are family. We will be in each other’s life regardless. If he wanted to end it today, I would respect that and try my hardest to move on and let go.

  • […] Would you tell your spouse about what happened in the past with your brother?

I would definitely tell my spouse and/or someone I was in a serious, serious relationship with. It would be hard but they would need to know.

[…] I’m also not so delusional to think that if I did tell someone close what I have been doing that they would stay and love me. What I meant, is that I would risk losing that person to be honest. I wouldn’t stay with someone, have children with them and live a lie.

From another thread:

  • do other incest-related things turn you on, i.e “incest” porn instead of regular porn?

No, not [at] all really. […]

have you had any incestuous thoughts about other family members?

Absolutely not.

[…] We didn’t have to but we grew up sometimes sharing each other’s beds. I would get scared when I was little and would run in my brothers room to sleep in his bed. We never thought anything of it. We did however share his bed that night, as a lot of relatives came over for the holidays and I gave up my room.

[…] It’s hard to explain my relationship, in the sense of how it progressed. In the beginning it was just for fun, though we cared about each other, it was just mostly sexual. As time went by, he started kissing me more and I kept protesting. I did not want it to turn into a relationship. So, we would continue to date other people and we tried very hard but as time went by, it was just inevitable. The night we made it official is when I came back home from going out on a date. I didn’t think he would be at our parent’s house but he was. He saw how I was dressed and he asked where I had been. I was honest and told him. He completely broke down and begged me to not be with anyone else. He said he [had] fallen in love with me and he doesn’t even want anyone else. I think all of the emotions that we had been holding back, just came out in a flood. We agreed that night, to only be together. So far, it is amazing and we get a long incredibly well.

[…] No one knows and we will never tell. My best friend, who I’ve known since I was 6, has no idea. It’s just too risky and it would be a big mistake.

  • […] have you developed firm plans for how to make your getaway after uni, et cetera

Nothing is set in stone. We are in college and we have awhile to go before we could ever consider leaving. When the time comes, we will have a lot of tough choices to make. It’s going to be terrifying but I think it’s worth it.

[…] I think it started out as experimenting and fooling around and then it turned into something more over time. I started having stronger feelings for him when we started having sex regularly. I know it sounds weird, considering everything, but I didn’t want to admit that I was “falling” in love with my brother. When he expressed how he felt that night, I knew I felt the same way. I’ve tried dating and being intimate with other guys but it never felt as good or as right. I also never thought we could have a relationship or that he wanted something more than just sex.

[…] We are in the process of getting an apartment together and saying that we will be “roommates”. In the past, we have traveled out of state to stay at hotels. […] It’s near impossible to be together in public. Way too risky! We are hoping that after school, we can both move away and live together somewhere else.

[…] We both love each other very much and we want it to work, but the odds are against us. We are just trying to live in the moment and be happy.

[…] I was also worried about him. I want him to have a “normal” relationship with a girl, where he can get married to her, have children … no secrets. I hate taking that away from him and that’s honestly the hardest part about all of this. He shouldn’t have to give up so much, just to be with me. I feel like since I was the one who started this all, it’s my fault. Sometimes, I feel like I should just push him away so he can live a normal life and have a “normal” relationship. I’ve talked to him about this so many times but he gets really upset and he thinks I’m trying to end it. I feel really selfish.

[…] [My feelings are] hard to explain. I love him very much as my brother. I care for him greatly and now it’s turned into a romantic kind of love.

[…] I’m pretty sure our friends would be completely disgusted [if they found out] and I know it would kill my parents. It would be devastating to everyone we know and I’m hoping that will never happen. […] We are very close to our parents and were hoping we can keep this secret from them forever.