Even in India, where sex between consenting adults is not criminalized, stigma kills.
An incestuous relationship ended in tragedy when a 21-year-old boy committed suicide within hours of his sister giving birth in Katiya Koilara village of Betul district on Sunday evening. Sammal Dhurve was found hanging from a tree, not far from his house where his 20-year-old sister gave birth to a boy in the afternoon.
The panchayat [council of elders] had met on Friday after the unwed girl admitted that she and her elder brother were involved in a physical relationship for nearly a year. They told the panchayat they wanted to live as husband and wife and did not relent even in the face of opposition from villagers. […] “The girl said there was no pressure on her and she was firm.” […]
Baghel said the duo appeared unperturbed when they walked into the police station with a kotwar on Friday. There was no case to be made because both were adults.
[…] [M]ost villagers seemed to have reconciled to the duo’s unusual decision when Dhumal killed himself. The police said what could have led the boy to end his life was the fear of ignominy due to coverage in the media. It was only when outsiders started pouring in that the couple realised the consequences of their relationship, a police officer said.
This is another sad case of stigma and heartbreak leading to suicide. This one is mentioned in one of Full Marriage Equality‘s case studies. People so rarely talk about such tragedies, that much of what we know comes from secondary sources.
My [twin] sister and I have always been together since the moment we were conceived. I could never feel this love for someone I haven’t known my entire life. We know everything about each other.
The way I ultimately decided to be with her was when a girl told me about her twin, Jesse, who had committed suicide when their relationship was discovered and they were forced to separate. I realized how similar she sounded and knew one thing for certain. Nothing should stop true love. People are born into families not of their own will, and just because someone was born with them shouldn’t mean they can’t love each other.
I want them to open their eyes and mind. If they would just for a moment think logically, they would see my side. I have asked people what’s wrong with our relationship, but all they say is that it’s wrong or disgusting without giving any reasons. Something they seem to forget is that stopping true love is also morally wrong. I believe they’re the kind of people that people in the future will look back on the same way they look at people who were against interracial marriage.
In an incident with the twists and turns of an Agatha Christie whodunit, a 30-year-old man was killed by professional assassins allegedly hired by him to eliminate his own sister.
Police said that the victim, identified as Samar Das, had hired the gang of four killers to murder his sister Namita Das (35) who he thought had brought disgrace to the family by allegedly entering into an incestuous relationship with their elder brother, 41-year-old Abhimanyu Das (41).
[…] The genesis of the story goes back several years when the eldest brother Abhimanyu arrived in Angul from Kendrapada district in search of livelihood. Subsequently, he called over his sister and brother – Namita and Samar – and helped them engage in private jobs in Angul.
Though married, Abhimanyu allegedly developed an incestuous relationship with Namita that led to friction in the family. After she gave birth to Abhimanyu’s child recently, he kept her in a separate accommodation where they lived like husband and wife.
Samar, who by now owned an auto repairing shop in Angul, hired the four criminals for Rs. 3 lakh to murder his sister as he believed she had brought disgrace to the family by allegedly continuing an incestuous relationship with her own brother.
[…] Police quoted the arrested criminals as confessing that they had tried to kill Namita thrice but failed each time. Fed up with pressure from Samar to execute the job and not wanting to lose the contract amount, the foursome changed their plan.
A 40-year-old man was stabbed to death by a group of people, near Danilimda crossroads late on Friday night. Investigators said theperpetrators suspected the deceased of having had an incestuous affair with his niece. Police rounded up the accused.
According to Danilimda police, Rekha Vasava, a resident of Khodiarnagar, registered a complaint against her husband Mukesh, brothers-in-law Ravi and Jagdish and with two others — Bhikha and Ramesh — for the killing of her uncle, Rupsingh Thakor, 40. All the accused are residents of Khodiarnagar. The incident took place in Khodiarnagar at 9.45pm on Friday when a group led by Mukesh confronted Thakor and stabbed him while the others beat him up.
“During questioning, the accused claimed they suspected Rekha had an affair with Thakor for some time,” said a Danilimda police official.
My god, these just keep coming. I just posted about a murder yesterday. Before that, one case of attempted murder, and three different cases ofsuicide. Now we’re hearing about a mother who strangled her pregnant daughter with a wire hanger.
A 19-year-old man is facing a felony incest charge after police were dispatched to a Scottsbluff home in reference to a domestic disturbance that had occurred. Yonathan J. Lara-Robles of Scottsbluff was arrested Monday night on a charge of incest.
Court documents say an officer was dispatched to a home after a woman said her mother strangled her with a wire hanger. Further investigation revealed that her mother was furious after finding out that the daughter was pregnant with her biological half-brother’s baby.
It says several months ago, the siblings decided to experiment sexually together and she got pregnant. She says that he is the only individual she has had sex with.
Yonathan went to the police station to be interviewed, and said that he and his half-sister had sex five total times between January and May, 2014. Incest is a Class III Felony in Nebraska, and carries a prison sentenceranging from 1 to 20 years.
Unfortunately, our society is frequently more concerned with conforming to public “standards” than with what’s actually good for people. They deviated from “approved behavior”. Therefore, they are being punished. It doesn’t matter if this ruins both of their lives. In the minds of many humans, “abnormality” is itself a crime worthy of punishment.
This is the kind of stuff I spend my time reading through. Luckily, the closet for consanguinamory is massive, so most couples manage to “get away with it”. However, I know of one couple right now whose family are using CPS to take away their children.There are couples in Africa who are fleeing for their lives as their communities send bounty hunters after them. (And FYI, in this case and all the ones I linked to throughout this whole post chain, except for maybe two, the people involved are PoC. People don’t realize how much it happens among non-White people.)
This has been the status quo in most societies for most of human history, to one degree or another.
This happened a few years ago, but it’s still something that needs to be remembered.
Richard Finlayson, 21, and sibling Kirsty, 18, romped in the elevator as they were filmed by CCTV cameras. […] The shocking 15-minute clip showed them exiting the lift — only to return a short time later to have sex AGAIN. […] Sheriff Ray Small ordered Richard to be placed on the sex offenders’ register. The brother and sister will be sentenced next month.
This is the photo which the Sun uses over and over again:
And this is a photo which the Finlaysons took of themselves:
Pictures may say 1,000 words, but these say just one: bigotry. The Sun picked the worst photos they could find of the two, ones which would reinforce stereotypes.
The real nightmare wasn’t the coverage (as disparaging as it was), or even the legal proceedings, but the public reaction which followed:
The shattered mum of a brother and sister caught having sex in a train station lift told last night how her world collapsed […]. […] “My first thoughts were, ‘What have they done?’. My second thought was that we were all going to be attacked.”
[…] Richard and Kirsty were both released on bail and are due to return to court next month for sentencing. And Jacqueline revealed her family had been left living in terror after being targeted with death threats — forcing Richard to flee the country.
And it gets worse:
Kirsty Finlayson fled after locals smashed windows and threw bottles at her flat in a five-day campaign of terror. Residents in Rigside, Lanarkshire, turned on the 18-year-old after her [relationship] with brother Richard, 21, was revealed last weekend.
[…] Last night one neighbour raged: “It is disgusting. Folk around here are sickened and will not stand for it. Some people started smashing her windows last Saturday night and she has left the house.” Another resident added: “People are disgusted. It is against nature.”
[…] Police said they were investigating allegations of vandalism.
[…][Kirsty Finlayson] admits the incident has left her unable to sleep and eat after destroying her family. […] And she sobbed: “I’ve been made out to be a monster and have had to deal with people calling me a prostitute.”
[…] After word got out about the case Kirsty, who later moved out the hostel into a flat, had a brick thrown through her window and was hounded out of her home.
[…] “After court, when I [Richard Finlayson] spoke to my mum — she was devastated. I thought she’d disown me but she has been as supportive as she can be. […] I’ve had to move home to try and get away. I’m scared to walk down the street.”
People like them have to deal with abuse, suicide, murder, and now mob violence.I don’t see how any person with a shred of human empathy could see what these two have gone through – public humiliation, legal prosecution, mob violence – as in any way just. What kind of society are we creating when we allow for this? What does it say to our children? I’m glad that at least their family supports them.
I’m a sous chef at a restaurant in Williamsburg, Virginia, and my hobbies include swimming, dancing, going to the movies with sis and walks on the beach. I only have the one sibling, my sister, who lives with me. I’ve had other girlfriends, but I’m happy being with sis.
I got out of high school with my diploma, and I had always had a passion for cooking, so I expanded on that. I went to community college and went through the culinary program, which I passed with flying colors.
[…] [I am a lesbian], as is my sister. […] If we could get married, we would.
[…] We did grow up together, but my sis went in the military when she turned 18. We reconnected when she got out. […] Sex started after a couple of months of us being together, and it came about with us just talking about it one night. When we first got together as a couple, I could see us being intimate. She made the first move, asking me about my favorite positions. […] [It was] a wonderfully warm, tender moment when we first mated. I felt like I was making love, and not just having sex.
[…] We have been living together just over a year now. She lives with me at my house. We do see each other as siblings and lovers, girlfriends and partners. We don’t do affairs, we are loyal to each other. While we would like to be married, we will settle for the commitment ceremony.
[…] Our parents know. They found out because they saw her engagement ring, and noticed that mine matched, and they asked us. We just told them straight up when they asked. We do act like a couple in public, everywhere we go.
[…] The main thing we’ve done to hide it is just not tell anyone. I don’t think that other than legal issues there are any disadvantages. As far as an advantage goes, at least in the case of my sis and I, we already knew each other very well and we already loved each other as sisters. […] My sis and me plan to do a commitment ceremony. […] Our parents told us that they had family relations when they found out my sister and I were together.
My [identical] twin sister and I have been inseparable our entire lives. Our parents bought a house shortly after we were born, but one ended up as aguest room because we refused to sleep in separate beds even when we got older.
Anyway, after some bad dating experiences, I began to develop an intense attraction to my sister. She knew me better than anybody else possibly could. When we moved out of the house, we rented a duplex together since we still wanted to remain close. After a few months, she began joking around that we were living like a married couple. I finally confessed my feelings to her (a few glasses of wine helped) and she started crying (wine might have helped that, too) and told me she felt the same way.
We felt ashamed and “immoral” for a long time and in that instance it all melted away. It was the biggest relief I have ever felt. Today we live together as if we were married, but nobody knows of our relationship…not even our parents. Our lifelong bond hides it, I guess, and that’s good since I’m not sure I want my family to know.
We’re glad to have found that there are many others like us!
For anyone else who’s in a relationship with a relative or family member, or who’s dealing with sexual or romantic attractions towards one, the Kindred Spirits forum is a safe space. The rules are simple, but strictly enforced. Click on “Rechercher” to sign up, and “Connexion” to log in.
“Twincest” is pushing limits in an industry known for extremes. What is it, and why are so many people watching?
The article pushes some of the stereotypes and stigma, but that’s not unusual. What’s more interesting is the story of these twins, and the minor trend they represent in global gay porn.
Over the past few months, they have become two of the most controversial performers to hit the gay porn world in a very long time. That’s because they’re willing to break a taboo that, even in an industry that thrives on extremes, is too extreme for many: twin incest (or, more succinctly, twincest). While the concept of twin performers is not new to the gay porn world, the Peters twins are notable both because of the extent of their popularity and the things they are willing to do with each other on camera. They French kiss; they perform oral sex on each other; they have anal sex; and most shockingly of all, they do it in a tender and romantic way.
“My brother is my boyfriend, and I am his boyfriend,” says one of the twins during a phone call from Prague (Elijah and Milo sound so much alike on the phone it is impossible to tell which one is speaking). “He is my lifeblood, and he is my only love.”
[…] The way they tell their story, they were “very close” as children and first began having sex with each other when they were 15 years old — around the same time they decided to pursue a career in pornography. Once they turned 18, they submitted their photos to Bel Ami, explaining that they’d be willing to have sex with each other on camera. After their work hit the Web, they say, somebody sent a link to one of their videos to their parents: “Our parents recognized what we actually do, and it was not good,” says one of them. Though, clearly, that isn’t stopping them.
Dear Prudence: “Brotherly Love”
My fraternal twin and I (both men) are in our late 30s. We were always extremely close and shared a bedroom growing up. When we were 12 we gradually started experimenting sexually with each other. After a couple of years, we realized we had fallen in love. Of course we felt guilty and ashamed, and we didn’t dare tell anyone what we were doing. We hoped it was “just a phase” that we’d grow out of, but we wound up sleeping together until we left for college. We knew this could ruin our lives, so we made a pact to end it. We attended schools far apart and limited our contact to family holidays. But we never fell out of love with each other, so after graduation we moved in together and have been living very discreetly as a monogamous couple ever since. I’m not writing to you to pass moral judgment on our relationship—we’re at peace and very happy. Our dilemma is how to deal with our increasingly nosy family and friends. They know we’re gay, and we live in a state where same-sex marriage is legal, so we’re getting pressure to settle down. I feel we should continue being discreet for the rest of our lives and blow off their questions. It’s nobody’s business, and I fear they would find our relationship shocking and disgusting. My brother, though, is exhausted with this charade. He thinks that if we get the family together with a therapist to talk through the issues, they’ll eventually accept it. I think he’s out of his mind, but I also want to make him happy. Is this one of those times when honesty is not the best policy? If so, how do we get everyone to stop worrying we will die alone? I’m also concerned about the legal implications of this—would the therapist be required to report us to the authorities? Could we go to prison?
—Tired of This Greek Tragicomedy
I admit this is my first letter about homosexual, incestuous twins, but I’m going to take you at your word that you two are happy and that I should suppress the images that came to mind of two sets of brothers who lived together and came to unseemly ends: the pack-rat Collyer brothers and the twin gynecologist Marcus brothers. Let’s deal with your legal questions first. I spoke to Dan Markel, a professor at Florida State University College of Law. He said that while incest is generally illegal in most jurisdictions, the laws tend to be enforced in a way that would protect minors, prevent sexual abuse, and address imbalances of power. Those aren’t at issue in your consensual adult relationship, but Markel suggests you have a consultation with a criminal defense attorney (don’t worry, the discussion would be confidential) to find out if your relationship would come under the state incest statutes. Either way, it’s better to know, and if it is illegal, as long as you remain discreet the likelihood of prosecution is remote. Next, I suggest that you and your brother split the difference in your approach to family and friends. Blowing people off for the next couple of decades is only going to fan the flames of curiosity. But I also agree with you that having a family gathering in which you announce you two have found life partners—each other—will give everyone the vapors. Ultimately your choice is your business, but a limited version of the truth should back everyone off. When people ask when you’re each going to go out there and find a nice young man, tell them that while it may seem unorthodox, you both have realized that living together is what works for you. Say no brothers could be more devoted or compatible, and neither of you can imagine wanting to change what you have.
A lot has happened since then. The first thing I have to mention is that my brother didn’t know I had written in to you. He noticed your column during breakfast and almost had a heart attack when he realized it was talking about us. After he got over the shock, we both started joking and worrying that someone we knew would read it and put two and two together. I guess I should have thought about that earlier! In the end we were both relieved to be talking about this openly and honestly. We did contact an attorney as you suggested, who told us that while incest is illegal in our state, our situation was unique and unless we paraded down the street engaging in public sex, there was no chance of prosecution. After that, talking about your column some more sparked a motivation to get the perspective of a professional marriage/family counselor. We found one who, over the past seven months, helped us not only think through the immediate dilemma but also, unexpectedly, deal with some long-buried issues from our childhood.The way our relationship turned romantic and sexual when we were kids was that I was being bullied pretty badly starting in fifth grade for being a “sissy” and my brother (who was a lot more masculine, into sports, and therefore not bullied) was the only one I could turn to for support. I didn’t feel that I could confide in our parents, who at that time made homophobic comments regularly (it was the middle of the AIDS epidemic). There was one night in our room when I broke down crying and admitted that I was gay. He saw himself in the role as my protector, and then one thing led to another from there. So in the therapy sessions we spent a good deal of time sorting through our conflicted feelings, then and now. I fully acknowledge that when we were kids the relationship was somewhat co-dependent, but we lead pretty independent lives now with separate careers, friend networks, etc. I know some of your readers think we’re emotionally stunted, and maybe we are. On the other hand, I know plenty of people in unhappy relationships (gay and straight) with troubled families, so I guess in some way we’re all a little screwed up, aren’t we?One of the more ironic parts of this situation is that the sexual aspect of our relationship faded away many years ago. We’re physically intimate, but it’s limited to kissing and cuddling for the most part. According to our counselor, this phenomenon is actually not uncommon among gay male companions, and from what I gather, even among heterosexual couples who’ve been together as long as we have. I know how weird this must sound, and often we both just burst out laughing at how our lives turned out, but it is what it is.As far as what we should tell family and friends, after discussing it extensively with our counselor my brother and I eventually saw the wisdom in your advice. Over the summer when our mom brought up the subject (again), we were well prepared with a response. We told her that we both tried dating men and women (true) but never met anyone who made us want to give up the comfortable, happy life we already have living together (true). We said she didn’t have to worry we would die alone, because we’re committed to supporting each other to the end (also true). She wasn’t thrilled, but at least the way we responded appeared to allay some of her worries. We gave similar explanations to a few of our friends and they seem to think it at least makes rational sense, even if it’s not ideal from their perspective.
We’d like to thank you for providing such a nonjudgmental and compassionate response. I guess it seems obvious in retrospect, but at the time the solution didn’t seem clear at all. And writing the letter to you set in motion a lot of other positive changes besides.
A father and his adult daughter are facing charges of incest after their arrests in Klamath Falls, Springfield police said. Two children who are a result of their relationship have been placed in foster care, according to detectives. Eric Lee Gates, 49, and his daughter, Chalena Moody, 25, both formerly lived in Springfield.
Gates was arrested Dec. 23 in Klamath Falls and extradited Wednesday to Lane County, where he was arraigned and pleaded not guilty. He is expected back in court Feb. 11. Moody, who also goes by the last name of Risland, was arrested Tuesday in Klamath Falls and released on bail. She was ordered to appear in Lincoln County on Jan. 26 to face an unrelated 2010 charge of reckless endangerment. Details of that case were not immediately available.
Warrants for Gates’ and Moody’s arrests were issued by Springfield police in April, after investigators were alerted to the relationship by an elderly woman, police said. At that time, Gates and Moody were under investigation for an elder abuse claim, but detectives later determined they were not involved in any such abuse. However, Gates and Moody allegedly were open about their relationship, and the elderly woman told police about the father-daughter couple.
The relationship between Gates and Moody has been ongoing for “quite some time, it appears,” Springfield police Detective Dave Lewis said. Gates and Moody are both the biological parents of two children under 2 years of age, Lewis said.
[…] Lewis said Gates and Moody claimed their relationship was consensual, and admitted to being father-daughter and also conceiving children together. DNA tests were performed on the family, and it was determined that Gates and Moody are related and had children from an incestuous relationship, Lewis said. Lewis said Gates was not Moody’s custodial parent during her childhood, having served stints in prison while she was growing up. Court records show at least one of those prison terms was for a felony conviction of driving with a suspended license. However, Gates and Moody reconnected in recent years and started the alleged relationship, Lewis said.
Oregon State law defines incest as when a person marries or engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual intercourse with another whom the person knows to be related to them, either legitimately or illegitimately, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either whole or half-blood. Incest is a Class C felony, punishable by up to five years in prison and $125,000 in fines.
[…] In Oregon, the FBI’s website doesn’t include incest crime rate data for Eugene, Springfield and Lane County, but the city of Bend had one of the higher rates of 10.33 reported cases of incest per 100,000 people in 2010-11. Bend has a population of around 80,000 people. The most common alleged relationship there was between siblings. In Sutherlin, with a population of around 7,700, the reported crime rate for incest was 12.67 per 100,000. Those relationships also were most commonly between siblings, and the average age was 18.
It’s not presented what percentage of these prosecutions were for consensual relationships. I agree with FME: “So now the authorities are traumatizing [this couple’s] children. Why? […] And notice this goes back eight months or so. You’d think the police would have let it go, rather than following them for eight months and into another jurisdiction.”
New York’s highest court gave its blessings Tuesday to marriages that are all in the family. Despite the ick factor, a union between a half-uncle and his half-niece is not incestuous under New York’s Domestic Relations Law, according to the unanimous Court of Appeals ruling. The court said a marriage in which the groom is the half-brother of the bride’s mother poses about the same genetic risk as marriages between first cousins. “First cousins are allowed to marry in New York, and I conclude that it was not the Legislature’s purpose to avert the similar, relatively small genetic risk inherent in relationships like this one,” wrote Judge Robert Smith, a Republican.
The case involves a 19-year-old Huyen Nguyen of Vietnam, who married her 24-year-old half-uncle, Vu Truong, of Rochester, N.Y., in 2000. The bride’s grandmother — Nguyen Thi Ba — was also the groom’s mother. The groom, however, had a different father than the bride’s mother. In 2007, an immigration judge ruled the marriage was bogus and ordered the bride deported. A federal appeals court, however, asked New York’s highest court to decide whether such marriages were, in fact, legal under state law. The Court of Appeals found that while marriages between uncles and nieces or aunts and nephews were expressly prohibited, there was no such prohibition on relations between half-blooded uncles and nieces, or half-blooded aunts and nephews.
While the decision was unanimous, Judge Victoria Graffeo and two other judges suggested the state Legislature should revisit the issue. “Such relationships could implicate one of the purposes underlying incest laws, i.e., ‘maintaining the stability of the family hierarchy by protecting young family members from exploitation by older family members in positions of authority, and by reducing competition and jealous friction among family members,’ ” Graffeo wrote. Michael Marszalkowski, an attorney for the couple, hailed the decision and insisted Huyen’s marriage was not done for immigration purposes. “They have stayed together for 14 years and counting,” he said.
Marszalkowski said the couple deny being related to each other but lower courts — based on evidence supplied by the groom’s sister — concluded they were. “This really was an all-or-nothing issue for them,” he said. “If this would have been denied, she would have been deported and sent back to Vietnam.” About a half dozen other states, Marszalkowski said, allow such marriages.
The Rev. Jason McGuire, executive director of conservative group New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms, saw danger signs in the court’s decision. “If government’s only interest in marriage is who loves each other, [then] what logical stopping point is there?” McGuire said.
It’s not often I get to post good news. This is a great thing, even if the argument relies on a eugenic justification. This kind of case is actually not that uncommon. American “incest” laws get used against immigrants from cultures with looser prohibitions, like the Hmong, sometimes invalidating their green card status.
(“If government’s only interest in marriage is who loves each other, [then] what logical stopping point is there?” Two words for you: consenting adults.)
“Only a Culturally Liberal Rwanda Can Survive the Coming Decades”
Last week I read about a case in Germany that turned my stomach. On Wednesday, the German Ethics Council, a government-backed committee, recommended that the government abolish laws criminalising incest between siblings, arguing that such bans impinge upon citizens’ rights to sexual self-determination.
This was after a man named Patrick Stuebing had four children with
his sister, Susan Karolewski. The two did not grow up together and met when Stuebing was 24 and Karolewski was 16, and had been romantic partners for several years. Stuebing was convicted of incest in 2008 and attempted to appeal his case to the European Court of Human Rights, to no avail. German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party isn’t having it; a CDU spokesperson is quoted saying “abolishing criminal punishment against incestuous actions within a family would go completely against protecting the undisturbed development of children”.
My first instinct was to dismiss the entire affair as a strange example of Western über liberalism; kind of like the Ontario law that allows women to walk around bare- chested if they so wish, without fear of arrest for public indecency. But the longer I thought about the Council’s decision, the more I realized that very little of my disgust or discomfort was based on any actual reasoning; or rather my instinctual ‘yuck’ wasn’t based on biological or ethical reasons. I just found it weird, disgusting and vomit inducing. The strength of my gut reaction took me aback, it made me realise that I wasn’t as culturally liberal as I had thought.
I’m proud of my laissez-faire attitude to most things. I believe that laws shouldn’t govern what adults do to make themselves happy, especially when it comes to acts carried out in the privacy of their own homes. As long as there is mutual consent. But that begs the question, how far can individual freedoms go before they run counter to societal norms and rules? And further, who defines what societal norms and rules are?
While some might call this simply an academic discussion without bearing to ‘real life’, I would beg to disagree. Here in Rwanda I feel like we are going through monumental changes in the fabric of our society. For example, lets look at how gender roles are changing. What defined a ‘munyarwandakazi’ (Rwandan woman) only three decades ago would be sneered at today. Women were supposed to be demure, virginal and soft spoken. They were certainly not supposed to be leaders, either in their homes or in the workplace. And the law of the day mirrored that reality; married women were not allowed to start businesses without their husband’s explicit permission.
That was the culture of the day and I’m sure that if someone told the lawmakers of the day that Rwanda would sweep their attitudes and laws into the dustbin of history, they’d have laughed them out of the room. What constitutes Rwandan culture and norms is constantly changing in my opinion and two factors, the country’s younger generation and Rwanda’s embrace of the global community, are leading that. Perhaps its one and the same thing. What I wonder is whether those who institute our laws and govern our cultural life (I call them the ‘moral police’, you can identify them by their overuse of the word ‘umuco’-culture) know just how fluid culture is today. What is ‘yucky’ today isn’t necessarily what will be ‘yucky’ tomorrow.
Perhaps that’s what we should take from the German case. And I’m not talking about the legality or otherwise of incest. We must constantly question our cultural beliefs and norms. We must always ask ourselves the question, ‘why do we believe what we believe? Are those beliefs relevant in today’s world? Should we not challenge our own prejudices more?
Kabwe Principal Resident Magistrate John Mbuzi has convicted and committed brother and sister facing sex charges to Kabwe High Court for sentence. Mr Mbuzi said it was un disputable that Maureen and Aaron Musonda where living as husband and wife despite knowing very well that they where siblings. ‘I do not believe both your defense and evidence as the witnesses called in by the state had no reason to lie against you and also accused number one Aaron in your testimony you failed to deny that you did not marry your sister’, Mr Mbuzi said.
This is in case where Maureen Musonda and Aaron Musonda of Makululu compound are facing two counts of incest. Particulars of the offence are that Aaron Musonda on dates unknown but between December, 2013 and February 27, 2014 in Kabwe knowing Maureen Musonda was his sister had unlawful carnal knowledge of her. In the second count incest by female particulars of the offence are that Maureen on dates unknown but between December 1, 2013 and February 27, 2014 in Kabwe knowing Aaron to be her brother permitted him to have unlawful carnal knowledge of her.
During trial the state brought in five witnesses among them their biological father and also their land lord. Their father Umbrella Musonda 59 years a peasant farmer of Mkushi District told court that he had fifteen children and that Maureen and Aaron where both his children. Musonda told court that he fathered the two but in cross examination he admitted that the two did not grow up together and had different mothers though he insisted that he had introduced the two as brother and sister.
Another witness Nellie Musonda who was their landlord told court that on February 5, 2014 Aaron Musonda approached her and asked to rent one of her rooms. Ms Musonda told the court that he offered Aaron a room but before she did she told him that she only rents out her rooms to married people to which he responded that he had a wife who would join him soon. She told court that a day later Aaron and Maureen moved in together and shared the room and were also seen taking baths together and lived as husband and wife. Later Mr Mbuzi established a trial within trial after Aaron told court that he was intimidated by the police officer to admit the charge.
The state then called in two witnesses to testify in the trial within trial after which Mr Mbuzi ruled that according to the evidence in court and witness testimony it was clear that Aaron willingly admitted the charge. When the two were put on their defence Maureen denied Aaron having had canal knowledge of her despite Aaron demanding for sex from her.
Mr Mbuzi in passing the sentence said the offence the two had committed attracted not less than 20 years and committed them to the Kabwe High Court for judgement. He has since revoked Maureen’s bail and both are in remand awaiting judgement in the next Kabwe High Court session.
A Burning Love Denied Equality
I am currently in an emotional, spiritual and sexual relationship with my genetic half-sibling. […] Yes, we are going to get married. We can do it legally because legally we are not related. My birth certificate has different parents and I have a different last name.
[…] He is my father’s son from a brief relationship/marriage when he was 18 years old. My father left him and the relationship when he was an infant. I remember meeting him once when I was 12 but I did not understand who he was. I remember thinking how great he was and how gorgeous he was! He finally told me in the later years that I asked him to marry me twice, once when I was 7 and then when I was 12. When I was 20, he came into my life for the first time that a can truly recall vividly and our familial relationship was explained; that I had an older brother I did not know. So in my mind, we did not meet until I was 20 and I did not feel a brotherly love for him at all.
[…] It was an instant and overwhelming sexual attraction when I was 20. We tried to act the part for months but at one point it was too overwhelming and we kissed. I initiated the kiss. He was sitting on the couch and I just moved towards him and I kissed him. That did not feel wrong or gross. It felt like love. We soon started a sexual relationship which ended after about after six months when we decided to not see each other. The sex was amazing and loving, not like the sex I had prior to meeting him. I always felt guilty and punished myself emotionally for the shame I felt. I was so confused about my feelings and felt dirty and evil, especially in the religious and moral sense.
[…] We have been in a loving, committed, sexual relationship since reuniting two and a half years ago. It is funny that people we meet envy our relationship- the honesty, respect, love, trust and kindness we have for each other, but if they knew about our background, we would be judged and shunned. We laugh, hold hands, vacation, cook together, cry together, kiss each other good night and read in bed- just like every other married couple. From what I have witnessed of married couples in my circle of friends and family, our relationship is one of the best and strongest around. It does not feel kinky at all, it feels normal and natural. I find him extremely attractive and I have never enjoyed sex prior to him. He is my dream man in bed and out. Just a light passing touch from him can ignite passion in me. It would feel odd to be with someone else sexually. The romantic love is not raw, it is sensitive and loving (the only way I can think to describe it) I would say we are married spiritually and physically. He is everything I want in a man. I feel as if he is the lost side of my heart and soul and that we are complete when we are with each other. I miss him when I don’t hear his voice every day or feel his kiss on my lips or his breath on my neck at night when I sleep. He is my best friend and my lover, what more could anyone want?!
[…] His mother now remains our strongest support and I love her as my “soul” mother. To keep our privacy, when we move in together we will be living approximately three hours from where I was raised and where he currently lives. […] I just wish we could be honest with everyone in our lives. I want to share my joy and happiness with the people I love. I am grateful for his mother and our friends that support us in all we do.
[…] I understand that many think what we are doing is wrong. At this point in my life, he makes me a better person. I am a Christian and he makes me want to be a better person. God is strong in our lives and I believe that we will be blessed as husband and wife, whether it be lawfully under God or under human law is irrelevant. Because I did not really meet him until I was older, the only memories I have are ones of him being my object of affection so if anyone would disapprove, I say to them that they need to worry about their own relationships, not mine. I am an adult and so is he. We have both had long-term relationships and we have chosen to be with each other after all these years. We are both attractive and fit adults and would definitely not have a problem getting dates, we just choose each other! I am here to say that I do and can consent and it would be devastating to lose him. I feel as if I deserve to be happy and so does he.
[…] In addition to getting married, we would like to have children in the future if we are blessed enough to get pregnant. We are lucky we are older and can make a home for ourselves and distance ourselves from negative influences and start our lives together.
[…] I thank God for him every night. My experience with GSA has been an amazing journey but we would love to have a support group to discuss the trials and tribulations we experience. Thank you so much for your blog; it truly gave me the courage I needed to continue on with our relationship and realize that we were not alone.
I’m 35, the mother of one son. I work in real estate. I currently live with my son. I became pregnant at the age of 15. After my son was born, his father decided to leave and hasn’t been a part of either of our lives since.
[…] [We had a standard mother/son relationship. We were always very open with each other and we talked about everything together.] However, I was probably a little overprotective being a young single mom. I was always very open about sex and sexuality with my son during his teenage years to make sure if he did have sex he would be careful and use protection.
[…] Well, it was a sudden thing for sure. It started after I walked in on Jake masturbating to pictures of me in my bikini. I was shocked to say the least. However, at the same time I was flattered that a hot young guy was into me. I let us both cool down for a while, then I had a talk with him. While I was figuring out what to say, I couldn’t stop thinking about Jake and how handsome he had become.
I went back into his room and sat down on his bed and told him we needed to talk about what he was doing. He told me he was sorry, but that he couldn’t help it and admitted he had been thinking about me, spying on me and masturbating to me for years. He even admitted that he would always think about me whenever he was having sex with his girlfriend. I was so overwhelmed by what was happening that I don’t exactly know what came over me, but I just grabbed him and started kissing him; not as a mother but as a lover. We started making out heavily with him on top.
[…] The feeling was so intense, knowing what we were doing was so “taboo” and that there was no going back. When we made eye contact, the feeling was one I had never felt with any other lover before. […] It took us both a while to recover. When he did he looked at me and just kissed me. We kissed for a while and were together in each other’s arms asleep the rest of the night.
[…] I never thought about incestual relationships, much less actually being in one myself, nor have I ever been in one other than with Jake. We had never heard of other mom/son couplings prior to our relationship, but afterward we have made contact with four other couplings: three mom/son, and one mom/aunt/son through the internet, and have met and still frequently meeting up in real life.
[…] The sex itself is still somewhat taboo due to the fact we must keep it secret in order to continue our relationship without punishment from the law. Our relationship is essentially that of a married couple (except legally married of course,) but also that of a mother/son relationship. It’s somewhat of a strange balance, yet it works well and honestly our relationship has never been better or closer.
[…] As I mentioned earlier, we have met four other incestual couplings both online and then in real life. They know our full, true history and our current situation and have no judgements. Also one other friend, my friend “Jane” and her son, Jake’s friend “Steve” (whom we frequently tease and suggest they hook up) also know. They have all accepted what we are and how we feel fully with support and no judgements.
[…] Thankfully, we both have an outlet via our friends to be open and honest about our relationship. Without that I think we would have both gone insane from the secrecy. However, there is still the disadvantage of not being able to be publicly open like almost every other couple is allowed. Right now we can openly be mother and son but not spouses which means in public we have to lie to others about who we are truly. As far as advantages go, I know for a fact that I love my son and that he loves me, not just as lovers but something deeper that is a love stronger and with deeper bonds than non-consanguineous relations.
[…] Honestly, I don’t care what anyone else thinks, we are happy and that is all that truly matters. As far as “preying” goes, we have both had discussions after our initial sexual encounter about what we wanted from our relationship and both decided that we could break up if either felt uncomfortable. Today we are essentially married emotionally, spiritually, sexually, etc. every way except legally.
[…] [FME: Jake wrote to me recently to say “Hope all is going well. I am just writing you to update you, and to let you know that my mother is pregnant.”]
Passionately in Love, Denied the Freedom to Marry
I am from the south of England now living with my brother in the north of England, I was adopted at the age of 1 and raised by my adoptive family, but knew I had a ‘blood’ family from about the age of 5, although I never met them. John has lived in the north of England from the age of 11. He was raised by his biological mother with his younger three half sisters and younger full blood brother. Our father was off the scene from when I was 6 months, and neither me or my brother have had contact with him and are not really interested.
John knew of me all his life; he remembered when I was given away when I was 1. John was told to keep me a secret and not to mention my name to anyone. However this was a secret that he thought about every day. My adoptive family explained to me I had another family when I was about 5. We met briefly when I was 17. It was difficult for me to deal with as I had problems and didn’t get on with my birth mum. I was this secret to her new husband and her other children that turned up, and I guess she felt a bit embarrassed. John and I, at this time, really had no form of relationship or contact. I cut contact completely with the family and got on with life.
Years later, John contacted me. We met up one week after our first phone call, with others. The similarities and uncanny traits we had in our personalities were truly mind-blowing. […] We’re soulmates. We live together with my child, and John’s children stay weekends.
[…] The first time I felt something was when we met 3 years ago. He gave me a hug that felt like a homecoming. I felt safe and secure, I smelled him and couldn’t stop touching him; it was so intense. For the first time in my life I felt whole.
I wondered what was going on with me. I couldn’t get him off my mind. After that first weekend had finished, we kept in touch daily by texts, emails, and phone calls. It was not uncommon to talk for 3 hours or more at a time. Every day we would tell one another how dearly we loved each other and how intense our feelings were becoming. Although from the second we set eyes on one another there was this electrifying sexual, mental, and physical attraction, we never actually said those words because of the fear of pushing the other away. And hey, we’re taught it is wrong, illegal, and immoral to have those thoughts, but as we now know we had absolutely no control to how we were feeling. It was never our intention to feel this way. I was fantasizing about him and felt a bit weird and freakish, so I googled, “help I’m in love with my brother,” that’s when I found the GSA site, and realised I wasn’t alone and wasn’t a freak, and there was reasons behind what I was feeling. Neither of us had heard of GSA, and would never have even thought of it.
We planned to meet up maybe a couple of times a year, but the intense hurt and need to be together was too great, and so we planned more visits. After one, the need to be together was so much stronger and we didn’t want to wait for the next planned visit, so John came to see me a couple of months after the last visit.
It got to a point I had to say something just so I would know if he felt the same. If he didn’t, I would have had to move on somehow, but I couldn’t carry on with it on my own. I got to that point of needing to know, and trusted enough that I wouldn’t lose him by saying what I felt. He beat me to it and told me first. It had taken him 5 months to tell me how he felt, and it had been the most agonising 5 months of my life. Confessing our true feelings was such a relief for the both of us. When we were parting at the airport, we hugged and just melted into one another, and from that moment we both felt totally and absolutely true love and knew things could never be the same again. We couldn’t live without one another.
[…] We tried to tell our full-blood brother. We basically showed him the GSA site and left it with him for 10 minutes. His reaction was not the best. He was probably a bit shocked, but since then we’ve told him we have normalised our relationship. [In GSA terminology, “normalized” means having a nonsexual socialized expression of their biological relation as brother and sister.] We probably told him to gain some kind of acceptance. However, we realised this was selfish on our part, so no one knows the true extent of our relationship. Our mother did question me and even pointed me to the GSA site, but we denied it. Still, she treats us like a couple in some ways.
If this was not illegal we’d have no problems telling people, including family. As it stands, everyone thinks we are just brother and sister sharing a house. We do get away to a different place about once a month for a weekend, where we know nobody knows us and we can be free to hold hands in the street and even cuddle. We would never dream of doing that in my own home town.
[…] [Our first time] was planned. We’d only hugged previously. We both discussed what we wanted, then we met in a hotel room. We knew after that first connection in the hotel room that things would never be the same. We knew were going to be together forever. The feelings were just so intense, it was like electric flowing from each other, we didn’t need words; our bodies said it all.
[…] I had issues all my life, never really trusting anyone. But meeting my brother, it’s the first time in my life I’ve trusted someone 100% so you could say for me that’s a definite advantage. It’s difficult to put into words. Neither of us has ever felt love like this before. We get on so well and are similar in so many ways […]. Both us have the same sense of humour. Unless you have experienced GSA, this would be hard to describe. […]
In many ways, our relationship feels as normal as any other relationship and we really can’t see the problem in the way we choose to live. However, we are not naive and know in the society where we live this is not socially acceptable.
[…] Do not judge until you’ve walked in our shoes. […] We are two consenting adults who are in love. If we lived in a country where this was legal I’m sure this wouldn’t be such an issue. Our relationship together in our eyes is 100% normal. I respect other peoples’ views on our relationship as I probably would have also been shocked before I knew about GSA. […] We are extremely happy and live life to the fullest. People who don’t know us have commented on what a lovely couple we make. We just smile and giggle to each other. This was never said with my ex husband or to John and his ex wife.
[…] We would love to get married and I hope one day, if not me and my brother, any other persons experiencing GSA would have this right. […] We are continuously making plans i.e. holidays, new house, which country will allow us to marry and maybe emigrate. We plan to carry on being happy and living life to the fullest. Who knows what the future holds, but what I do know is that both of our futures involve us being together.
Kevin and Donna
Donna: We’re still getting a handle on [our relationship], really. At first it was like siblings-with-benefits but it quickly became something deeper.
[…] Kevin: We’re both in our thirties and successful professionals living on the west coast of the US. Neither one of us has been married before. We were raised by our parents in upper middle-class suburbia. Neither of us have children. I make my living writing.
[…] I’m polyamorous; I can’t call myself a swinger. Some polyamorous people only have sex one-on-one even when they have multiple relationships. I sometimes have sex with two or more people.
[…] We’re full blood siblings, raised together. We were often pals while growing up, but we grew a little distant with university studies and getting our careers going, but then we got back to being pals as adults.
[…] I knew other siblings who were involved. I’ve spent a lot of time with a brother and sister who are deeply in love and have a beautiful relationship, and know of others. This is what probably made me open to the idea… seeing the love, the passion, the beauty of it all. Donna is a beautiful woman. But she was always in a monogamous relationship. She never seemed to be without a boyfriend since she’d hit puberty. And then, she was available. But I had to figure out if she would be interested.
[…] Donna: Like I said, I was serially monogamous. I was always focused on my boyfriends, as far as my personal attentions. I had no reason to even think of him in that way, other than what some of my friends have said about him over the years, and I could see how much some of his girlfriends liked him. But, I found myself unattached for what was really the first time in my life. I sat back and thought about what it was I really wanted in a man and in a relationship. I realized that my brother was the kind of man I wanted, but of course I didn’t think I should be with him, I thought I should find someone like him. I didn’t think it would be possible to be with him. And yet I was with him. I was spending more time with him than anyone else, and the only thing that wasn’t there was the sex. I was used to a steady, ongoing sex life, and here I was going without, and he was the man who was there.
My brother is a very sensual, sexual person. I knew he had an active sex life and is polyamorous, and rather than thinking “Ew, he’s my brother,” I was more curious about all of that, almost living vicariously through him, wondering what it was like to be polyamorous. I was asking him more questions about his love life. More and more, thoughts about him started popping up here and there.
[…] Kevin: […] Once Donna and I got together, I didn’t want her to be uninformed of my relationship with [those other siblings] and, in turn, the relationship they’re in. […] We’re not seeing anyone else, though, just them. Neither of us is going to be with someone new unless we have discussed it and agreed. I’m very happy with the way things are right now, though.
[…] Donna: The only people who know are the others we’ve been involved with. And some people Kevin talks with in [online] discussions and chats.
[…] Kevin: Having seen a brother and sister together and just how powerful that is, I also started seeing my little sister, single for what seemed like the first time in her life, in a new light. How could I not, seeing a special brother-sister relationship in-person and up-close, and talking with other siblings enjoying their special relationships? One night, we were having dinner together and my sister told me she was taking a break from dating. I couldn’t help but think “What if…?”
It was on my mind a lot. At the end of another night I spent having dinner and talking at her place, the night ended with a hug (not unusual) and a kiss on the lips (THAT was unusual). I thought I might be reading into it what I wanted to read into it. A family event was planned and my sister invited me to plan on crashing at her place at the end of that late night. I thought about it and had a gift for her that I want her to open in private at her place. She’d been feeling unattractive, which was just a result of some bullcrap with her last boyfriend. She’s a very attractive woman.
So my sister and I went back to her place. It was getting late but I had her open her present. It was some bath oils and such, candles, and this thin, silky kimono thing. She’s always liked taking a long bath when she’s had time to do so. I insisted she try out the gift even though it was late; she hadn’t been sleeping well those nights, I offered that the bath might help. I drew a warm bath for her, lit some candles, put in some mood music for her to help her relax. I left her in the bathroom with the kimono and closed the door. I returned in a bit with some wine. Bubbles gave her some privacy in the bath, so I couldn’t see anything as I handed her a glass.
When she came out of the bathroom, she was wearing the kimono. She looked stunning and told her so. I had her sit down on the couch and I put some baby oil on her feet and started massaging them. She was relaxing and had her head back with her eyes closed and was moaning in appreciation, so I started working up her legs slowly. I was becoming a nervous wreck as I kept moving higher. My fingers were finally brushing against the top of her legs when she tensed up, crossed her legs, and said we should stop.
I asked why… had I done something wrong? She said we just had to stop, because if I got any further she wouldn’t be able to stop me.
I said what’s wrong with that? She said we shouldn’t. I’m her brother.
I felt like getting out of there. I asked her if I should leave and she said no, I had probably had too much to drink and I should stay there as planned. So I went into damage control mode and told her that I love her and I wanted to treat her right and do whatever I could to make her feel good, and that I was sorry if I made her feel uncomfortable. She said she wasn’t feeling uncomfortable. She was having a good time. She just didn’t want to do the wrong thing.
I asked her if she could give me one good reason why I shouldn’t have been allowed to complete the massage. She said she’d think about it, but insisted we turn in for the night. She gave me a pillow and blankets for the couch. I thought I would never fall asleep, but I did.
Sometime in the middle of the night she woke me up and said she couldn’t sleep. I was worried that she was going to send me home. Instead, she said she was thankful for the present and if I still wanted to, she wanted me to go ahead and continue with the massage. […]
[…] We talked about it a little in the morning, but we had to go meet up with our family. She kept giving me signals throughout the day that she was happy, so that’s good. Over the next several days, we were busy with things that have kept us apart. We stayed in frequent contact, though. We were both happy with things.
The next time we were able to get together, I took her out to dinner then we went back to her place, where we made out like a couple of teenagers. […] She asked me to stay over again, which I had hoped she would. I told her I needed to shower off after being so sweaty with her, and she joined me in the shower! That was very nice. I like it when a woman takes initiative sometimes. […]
We spent the next day together and I had her pack to spend the night at my place because we were going to a party near where I live. Since there were people at the party who knew both if us we had to be careful. We were having trouble, though, so we left early. I took her back to my place. […] It was incredible.
It was great to wake up in each others’ arms again. We’ve been together regularly since then. Life has never been better.
[…] Donna: I was torn about what to do. I wanted it, but I had to think about it, and that’s why I stopped him when I did. I couldn’t think of any reason to deny him, or deny myself, and so I didn’t. I don’t regret it. The only thing I regret is that we didn’t get together sooner. It has been wonderful to unite with him, wake up with him, and have new experiences with him.
[…] Kevin: I understand that some people are disgusted by the idea. But that should not have any power over our relationship. Those who disapprove need to ask themselves exactly why they disapprove. I love Donna more than I’ve loved any other person. What is the problem?
[…] Donna: Do they want to take away my right to vote, too? My driving privileges? I am a successful, educated, independent woman with good mental health. I have chosen this, and it should be my choice. I’m not being harmed, and neither is anyone else.
[…] Kevin: I’m wondering how long we can go before the rest of the family figures out what is going on, so I want to have a plan in place for a worst-case scenario. Perhaps they will let it be an unspoken, open secret? Other than approval and support, that would be the best, I think.
[…] Donna: As already mentioned, we’re considering merging residences. If our family asks why we’ll focus on the finances and convenience. I do a lot of traveling, and I can say it doesn’t make sense to be paying for an empty place.
A Lifelong Love Denied Marriage Equality
Me and my brother live as husband and wife. Although nobody lives with us, we do have pets, and we quite often have our elder sister come and stay for anything up to a month at a time. We deliberately moved to a city so we could be together and build our relationship together. […] My bear is my full blood brother and is a year older than myself. I have an elder sister, a younger brother and an older brother. Due to our relationship though, we no longer have contact with our older brother.
[…] Our relationship is a very loving one, and my brother is my whole life to me, and I know I am his life and reason for living. We aren’t just brother and sister, we are the best of friends, soulmates and the other half to each other’s wings. We have a very close and intimate relationship, which includes lovemaking. I can’t sleep at night without him being by my side, I cry when he is in the hospital, etc. To me, there is only one person I have ever loved, and ever will, and that is my sweet darling brother.
[…] I have always been close to my brother, even as children we always seemed to get on better with each other than all our other siblings. We were raised by our parents in a very close knit community, which was quite hard, mainly because it became so difficult to hide our relationship away. Mum and Dad always said we were like 2 peas in the same pod even as children. […] I knew by the age of 13. I was very sexually attracted to my brother, but even though we both had the sexual attraction towards each other, we didn’t make love for the first time until a couple of years later. To us there was nothing wrong or strange with our feelings; it always felt just right. We had built our love up from an early age and to both of us, love isn’t wrong. How can sexual attraction be wrong when you have the love there?
[…] I don’t really think either of us made the first move. We had been in love for 4 years before we became sexually active like that. It was one of those moments that just felt it was right for the both of us. I know the first time we made love, I felt… well, how to put this… home. It was the most heavenly and loving feeling I had ever felt in the world, and I knew that I wanted my brother to be my one and only for the rest of my life from that point on.[…] We built our love up over many years. At 11 years old, I was craving to just be with him even if it was doing homework together and holding his hand under the table. At that age you do get confused with emotions and feelings, but then this is the learning process as you grow up, but to me, it always felt right. Of course we had ups and downs, we argued, we fought at times, but we always kissed and made up, literally. Even at an early age, we always managed to slip away for a moment to have a kiss before bed.[…] One thing that I always knew though, no matter how ill he got, I loved him. I would even play truant from school just to visit him in the hospital, etc. This was my loved one, my one and only, and I would have and still would do anything for him. He really is my one, my only, my heart, my soul, my every waking breath, and always will be. I have never wanted to be with anyone else; I have only ever wanted my brother.
[…] What is taboo about love? Our hearts and souls choose who we love, and who we want to share our lives with, so when you find that one special person, then how can it be so wrong or taboo? […] So what that [if] we are brother and sister? […] A relationship is built on love, trust, security, the ability to communicate with each other, and the ability to still learn more about each other. We have the advantage of having a whole lifetime of building this up with each other. Therefore, I feel it is a much stronger relationship, and definitely a more loving one, that many would never find in their lifetime.
[…] We have a very supportive family, and they know everything about our relationship. That included our grandparents. Our doctor and my brother’s medical team know about our relationship also. They had inklings years ago, and we finally admitted our relationship to his team, and they don’t even batter an eyelid now. They just see the couple we are.[…] It was mum and dad that caught us out big-time. They found us sound asleep cuddled up naked together, so really there was no hiding from that point. Yeah, it caused hell at first, but after they realised that we had actually been in love for 4 years by this time, they took the difficult decision to support us.[…] Now, if you look at us, you would see a normal husband and wife relationship, we walk down the street holding hands etc, but then that’s all we are… a strong loving couple. This is why we made the decision to move to a different city over 200 miles away from our original home.
[…] Take time to see the couple we are, take time to listen and learn, after all we are all the same underneath, we all have the same feelings and emotions, we all love and can be loved, so why should we not be with the one person who makes us feel complete? There is a difference between a consensual relationship and one that is non-consensual. That’s what defines the difference between a relationship and abuse. If you are not willing to learn about our type of relationship, […] aren’t you the ones abusing us by victimizing us?
[…] [I would marry him i]n a heartbeat. My brother is my life, he is everything I could ever want in a man. I have loved him for 24 years now, he is the only man I have loved and ever will, so even though we live as husband and wife, it would be dream come true to legally marry him. […] We find it difficult to make long term plans because of the health problems that my brother will suffer from throughout his life. Due to his medical condition, we both know he will spend the whole of his life having tests, having tumours form, and one day it will claim his life, so we live and love every day of our lives for what it is.
[…] We all love for the same reason: our hearts and souls tell us that the person we are with is the right one for us. Follow your heart, listen to your soul. When you know your heart, mind and soul speak as one, it’s right. Love never judges anyone, so don’t judge until you fully understand. We may be related, but look past that, see us for who we are. He’s my brother, yet he’s also my bear. He’s a Grizzly in his fight to give disabled people the right to lead as normal a life as you and me, yet my Teddy Bear when he’s in my arms. Don’t discriminate us, don’t judge us. We have a right to live and love, just like everybody else does.
A Loving Couple Denied the Freedom to Marry
I am from Canada. I was raised by my mother and maternal grandparents as an only child. I had what I would describe as an idyllic childhood until I was a teenager. Being the focus of four adults’ attention as a youngster can be both good and bad. My grandparents were actively involved in my upbringing as was my mother’s brother. Each of them offered me many things of value. My grandfather and I were particularly close. I spent a great deal of time in academic and artistic pursuits, each fostered by at least one of these adults.
When I turned 13 my grandfather died, my mother separated from her second husband, my grandmother fell into alcoholism, my uncle got married and became a fundamentalist Christian. I met my father for the first time that summer. It was a rough year. Obviously there were a lot of things I didn’t understand at the time going on under the surface. Today, I can say I do but it was a long personal journey to really come to grips with who the people I loved were and how that impacted me. I’ve learned a great deal from it all but it was a travail.
[…] [My father and I] were reunited the first time when I was a teenager. We had a conventional father daughter relationship externally but were to learn years later that we did not feel ‘conventional’ about each other then. I was struck with a physical and sexual attraction to him almost immediately. I squelched it. I thought I was ‘sick’ for feeling that way. We stayed in contact for six years at which point I couldn’t handle how I felt anymore and not act on it so… I ran and never spoke to him again until twenty some odd years later.
[…] Complete strangers know we are father and daughter. We are literally gender opposite mirrors of each other. The only people who know are my children and other GSA people we’ve connected with online and you, [Full Marriage Equality,] of course. My children came and asked the nature of our relationship early into our reunion. They were a little uncomfortable with it but all of them had come to terms with how it happened before they even came to me. It helped that two of my children are gay. There was some integral understanding of being persecuted for something you can’t help. It also helped that my father was just united with them for the first time last year. They are bio relatives but no ‘ick’ factor for them where he and I are concerned. I also think the striking similarity between him and I (not just looks, but personality) has made it much easier for them to trust him.
[…] I was upset that he was taking on this mantle of guilt and self castigation for feelings we BOTH had, particularly when his behaviour towards me was entirely appropriate for a father towards his teenaged daughter. In addition I felt he had been heroic in ignoring the loud signals I was giving him at the time. My poor father… if we had only known about GSA BEFORE we reunited we could both have avoided hating ourselves for our feelings. Feelings that were never acted on until twenty plus years later… and feelings that lead to another twenty year separation-both of us running from each other rather than doing something ‘sick’ or ‘perverted’. I was twenty the last time I saw him.
This led to our conversations about staying in each others lives, trying to understand what happened and why. Both of us committed to our relationship as father and daughter ahead of all else. That we would not allow ourselves to be separated again, no matter what else happened. We drew the conclusion before we knew about GSA, quite rightly, that the physical attraction was a replacement for the bonding we had missed and that it was okay even if others would not understand. That if we were to pursue our bonding through the sexual aspect of our relationship and it didn’t last we would stay father and daughter.
The first time we had contact was spontaneous in the sense that we didn’t plan it ahead of time. The conversations I describe above happened both before and after. This was a very fluid and intense experience. […] The line between hugging, kissing and being sexually intimate is blurred in GSA. It is an extension of who we really are to each other.
[…] I’ve mentioned several advantages already… the trust between my children and father is unparalleled. My children have connected with my father in a way they never could with a man I became involved with who was not a biological relative. That’s huge. Anyone who has been in a step parent situation knows exactly what I mean. My father loved them instantly; he wanted what was best for them, not because of me but for themselves. There was never an attitude of ‘putting up with them’ in order to be with me.
I believe our level of commitment to one another is deeper because of the relationship. It is easier to be monogamous. The intensity of feeling both good and bad is deeper. Because we communicate well we have learned to handle the difficulties associated with that better, like jealousy (which is far more intense than in an ordinary couple) and sensitivity. We both have learned to be a little more careful in how we express things to each other as a result.
But the big advantage in this is: I am as certain as he is that we do not ever want to hurt each other. We understand that we each wield a great deal of power over injuring the other but that feeling is concurrent with the desire to have the other’s happiness at almost any cost and certainly our own happiness is dependent on the other’s. It’s a difficult feeling to relate to if you have not experienced GSA, but it is truly selfless and imperative to be that way with one another. […] Do I really need to explain to anyone who has ever been in a relationship why that would be a huge advantage? I’m guessing not.
[…] No, [I don’t feel anything for any other family member] at all. Though to be fair, I haven’t spent much time with any of them yet. My half-brother and I saw each other when he was twenty one and I didn’t experience anything like the feelings I had for my father the first time we met.
[…] I am an adult woman under the law – I can consent to sex with anyone I want. As someone who has been raped and assaulted, I can personally tell you that what I have with my father is an act of mutual love. […] The more thought I give to GSA, to my GSA partner and our relationship, the more I feel that this is the new frontier, following the breakdown of the societal barriers toward homosexuality. […] The maelstrom is coming. As more and more people connect with their adoptive relatives, as more and more children of IVF accidentally marry their blood relatives, as more and more of us already in this situation process their own personal journey and wake up to the reality of their own innocence in all of it, the quiet whispers of our agony will become a screaming cry of outrage for freedom. Freedom from judgement, freedom from social persecution, freedom from criminal penalty, freedom to have the same legal rights and protection as any other couple.