The state DOES NOT necessarily know best

Most people believe that the governments of the world put laws there for a reason, and that if something is illegal, there must be a good reason for it. Sometimes this appears to be true, for instance there are legitimate reasons why it is illegal to run a red light, or to assault somebody, or to steal from them. However, there are some laws in place which really ought not be there, and one of those laws is the law against consensual adult incest.

Something as private and as personal as ones sex life should not be something for the state to dictate. Provided that all participants are of legal age and are consenting to the relationship, where exactly is the harm?

The state would claim that incest is illegal to protect people from sexual abuse, and to prevent deformed inbred babies from being born. So lets have a little look at this logically:

  1. It is quite possible, feasible and doable to legalize consensual adult incest whilst keeping pedophilia and sexual assault illegal. Penalties are already in place for child molestation and sexual assault (if anything those penalties should be more severe than they actually are). In the exact same way as the legalization of homosexuality did not lead to the legalization of same sex pedophilia, the legalization of incest will not lead to the legalization of same family pedophilia.
  2. The state sometimes says that even amongst adults, incest cannot be truly consensual where there is a power imbalance. Well, that doesn’t apply to GSA couples or to similarly aged siblings for a start. Here they’re mostly on about parent/offspring relations. However, the power differential here is TINY compared to some of the perfectly legal relationships like boss/employee and rich/poor. Just because it is possible for abuse to occur, does not mean that it will, and as stated above, it is possible to prosecute abusers without simultaneously persecuting consenting adults. Telling offspring in consensual relationships with their parent that they can’t consent is offensive and insulting, because it is treating those young adults like children who can’t make proper decisions for themselves. Again, if they can make the choice to have a relationship with a billionaire or their boss, they can make the choice to have a relationship with a parent.
  3. On the reproduction issue. I’ve said it before in other articles, and I’ll say it again… Everyone should be held to the same standards. We don’t stop others from procreating who may have a higher risk of birth defects, such as women over 40, drug abusers, alcoholics, heavy smokers, people with existing inheritable medical conditions, people who need medicines which may harm an unborn baby, people who have been exposed to radiation or toxic chemicals…. etc. Some of those people have a considerably higher chance of birth defects than the average incest couple. So in the interests of fairness and equality alone, this argument is complete horse shit.
  4. The state has no business telling people who they may or may not have a relationship with. It is infantilizing people and not allowing them to make their own choices in life. Big Brother DOES NOT KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR YOU, only you know that, and you should have the legal right to make up your own mind and choose for yourself, especially on an issue as personal as who to have an intimate relationship with.

Some laws which were borne out of prejudice and fear should have no place in the 21st century, and it is my hope that one day, these oppressive and overbearing anti-incest laws are placed in the dustbin of history where they belong, alongside the anti-gay legislation, slave owning, and misogyny which tarnished the past.

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6 thoughts on “The state DOES NOT necessarily know best

  1. ‘It is quite possible, feasible and doable to legalize consensual adult incest whilst keeping paedophilia and sexual assault illegal.’
    Every rational human being, who is not driven by fear, prejudice or simple stupidity would agree with that statement. I think the law in France could be a role model for other countries. It doesn’t imply that consensual incest between adults is widely accepted there but couples don’t have to live in fear of prosecution. That would be a huge step forward.

    ‘The state sometimes says that even amongst adults, incest cannot be truly consensual where there is a power imbalance.’
    Its ridiculous that the word imbalance often comes up in talking about these relationships. An 18 year old woman can go into porn industry and have sex with 5 men on camera. No problem for the law and society. But if the same women stop doing porn and start a relationship with a family member its a scandal and crime and both get punished. There is no logic in this.

    ‘However, the power differential here is TINY compared to some of the perfectly legal relationships like boss/employee and rich/poor.’
    In many ‘normal’ relationships there is an even more power differential on the emotional level. How many women with a bad childhood and low self-esteem end up with bad partners in abusive relationships?

    Concerning having children there is one big problem I see when GSA/Incest couples have kids. Incest is such a deep-seated taboo that I think that the kids are going to be bullied in school. But that’s the same for gay couples who adopt children. Sadly that’s our society at this point in time.

    You are fighting for a good cause but I don’t think that things will change in the near future. If I would be in a relationship with a family member I probably would consider moving to a country where my relationship is legal and I don’t have to hide.

    I’m sure that in a few hundred year from now people will look back in disdain at our times because of our intolerant, cruel and bigot societies. But to be honest if I look at the news I’m not sure if humanity will make it that long…….

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    1. Thanks Stefan for your clear minded and logical responses as always 🙂 There is only ONE point I disagree on, and that is the timeframe for change, of course I realize that it is not going to change in weeks, months, or even years…. but I do think that the necessary changes will come in less than a century. We’re looking at two to six decades I think. The LGBT community went from where we are now to having full equality (in most western nations) in 50 years, and all that WITHOUT the most obvious benefit of the Internet that we now enjoy as a matter of course. If they can do it, then so can we. It is not our distant descendants that will look upon our generation with shame, but our own grandchildren. Even if I am wrong about this, we are still laying important foundations for the next couple of generations to build upon.

      Oh, and don’t worry about the news… humanity has always had wars, famines, natural disasters….etc and has come through them. Some of these things are preventable, wars especially but they get fought anyway because of the incompetence of politicians to settle disputes peacefully. If you’re on about the jihadists, well, they will end up in the dustbin of history too because such hateful ideologies have a finite lifespan much the same as the Nazi ideology had a finite lifespan. If you’re worried about the economy, don’t, there probably won’t even be an economy 100 years from now. The system will have to be rebuilt from the ground up because the whole world is drowning in an unworkable system based upon debt. It will come down like a stack of cards, and when it does it will be each one for him or herself.

      As for our people, when the system breaks down, it can be turned into a bonus. If we haven’t already claimed our equal rights by then, then will be the time.

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      1. I’m not worried. I consider myself a positive person and not pessimistic at all. But concerning humanity I’m not sure how our future will look like.

        This whole subject is a huge topic in itself but lets make it short:

        We humans begun to evolve just 200.000 years ago and we have created so much trouble and a lot of suffering. Look at how we treat each other, the environment, animals (I’m Vegan by the way).
        I think we are living in interesting times now because it seems that we are at a crossroad. If we humans don’t change we will not survive the next few hundred years. That would not be dramatic and in a way even natural. Countless species disappeared in the course of evolution. Our anthropocentrism always makes us think that we are special somehow. We aren’t.

        But I also think that change is possible and that we have the potential to change course and make the next step. I mean a really deep change not just in our outer behaviour but in our mind, our consciousness. We have the potential to realize that we are deeply connected with everything, one with everything. One in a literal sense. That would be the end of egotism and madness and the beginning of love, real love.

        I really like talking about that topic. Maybe you should start another blog……

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      2. Yes, we ARE all connected, quantum physics says so. Anything that was ever connected remains connected (quantum entanglement), and so everything in the universe is connected because it was all together at the Big Bang. The Universe is a conscious living being that we call God, and it doesn’t want to be prayed to, it wants to be connected to. The universe consciousness is quite literally the love of God, and it is like a giant intergalactic internet of Consciousness. consciousness of God. The sins you mention above are committed because humanity doesn’t seem to know how to get ‘online’ yet. Once people realize how simple this all is, the organized religions will crumble or have to radically reform. Christianity will survive the awakening but NOT in it’s current form. Judaism will have to abandon some of the old testament teachings (the ones Jesus reformed), all that will be left of Islam is a few Sufis if it survives at all (the Sunni and Shia varieties cannot survive they are much too aggressive), some forms of Hinduism may survive and definitely some Buddhism.

        You’re vegan? Don’t you guys have to take Vitamin B12 supplements? I understood that it’s possible to be a healthy vegetarian that still eats animal products like cheese and eggs, but that you’re missing essential stuff if you don’t have those. Also, how do you get enough fat in your diet when all you eat is fruit and veg? I know it’s possible to survive on low fat diets when you’re overweight and trying to lose some, but if you’re a healthy weight wouldn’t this kind of diet be harmful? The last vegan I saw looked emaciated and unhealthy (although I can’t rule out possible health problems which could cause it, or even possibly an eating disorder).

        I dunno about starting another blog… it’s taken me a while to get this one well established and successful. One day I might, but not just yet, this one and my other community commitments take up a fair bit of my time. I’d rather be doing one job well than too jobs of mediocrity.

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  2. I didn’t expect an answer like that but I really like what you wrote.

    Concerning quantum physics I have to say that I don’t know much about it. Judging from the few things I have read it seems a strange but interesting science. A lot of the findings are a fascinating attack on our perception of reality. There seem to be a lot of connections to Buddhism and eastern spirituality.

    What is God? Big question. I also think that the mystical traditions are more close to the answer than the more organized, conservative religious movements. The mystics often have difficulties to express their experiences in words because what they experience is somehow beyond words.

    I really like how you describe the Universe as a conscious living being that wants to be connected to. My own believe and world-view goes a bit in that direction also. I think that we can experience this higher reality, God, when we let go. Let go of our ego, our material attachments, our hate and when we really start to love. We will discover that we are identical with God and that we are one with everything. But that’s a long way to go because there is a big difference between talking or writing about it and having the actual experience. Many spiritual teachers say it might even take lifetimes. I’m working on it and if I find God I let you know…

    Yes, I’m Vegan and take B12 as a supplement. It’s the only vitamin vegans should supplement because its nearly impossible to get otherwise. B12 is really inexpensive so its no big deal. Besides that being vegan is not complicated at all and you get all the nutrients you need. The fat you mentioned is also not a problem. Nuts are a good source and of course oil, healthy oils like flaxseed oil for example.
    Some vegans might look unhealthy for a variety of reasons but that’s the same for other people too. As you mentioned many people these days have eating disorders. Since I became vegan I only notice health benefits. But like many others I became vegan out of ethical reasons and the better health is just a pleasant side-effect.

    I know that you are really busy and spend much time on your computer because of your blog and ks. My suggestion to start another blog wasn’t meant seriously. I hope that you find enough time to relax and take care of yourself. Just take a break from time to time and enjoy life.

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    1. The subject of God and spirituality is a massive topic, far more than we could possibly talk about in here… but it is a very interesting subject and sometimes I think people pay too little attention to it because the livestyles people need to live to survive robs them of the necessary time to reflect. By the time most people are done with their day, they’re exhausted and just want to cabbage in front of the TV for an hour or two before bed.

      I do think that humanity is on a cusp though, where we either progress forward and ditch the stupidity, or suffer the consequences. That’s Karma for you, it has a way of biting people on the backside, and right now it will bite our collective backside if we don’t stop and look at what we as a species are doing. I’m not even talking about the sins committed against wildlife so much, but the sins committed against our very spirit. From Birth almost, we are conditioned to obey and submit to authority, sometimes this is a good thing, and at other times it means that people collectively allow governments, even elected ones, to trample over everyone. We’re always banging on about diversity, well then, lets SEE SOME REAL DIVERSITY rather than suppress it. The suppression of relationship diversity is just ONE FORM of a huge problem. Take politics, people are given the FALSE choice of left or right when the possible solutions are infinite. It’s like saying ‘you can eat an apple or an orange, but whatever you do, don’t eat a banana or any other fruit.. oh, and you’ll be ostracised if you tell anyone they even exist.’ The lunatics run the asylum and the herd polices itself, it’s ridiculous. Solutions to our problems aren’t political, they are spiritual, we’re in effect trying to fix a leaky roof by cleaning the windows, it’s THAT OBVIOUS. But most people haven’t even identified the problem as spiritual, and so they look to politics for the answer.

      When the awakening comes, democracy will survive in some form, but superpowers won’t, or even countries as we understand them. Power will be devolved right back down to where it belongs. To the local level mostly, and to the individual level where possible. Laws will be minimal and only necessary and common sense ones will be there. With a more advanced spiritual development and an emphasis on personal autonomy, laws that oppress simply will never be able to exist.

      The other major change will be economic, the false left/right paradigm has us all fooled, because they are both variants of the same thing. Money is created as a debt. It is like me giving you ten dollars and asking for eleven back when I am the only source of dollars. You can only repay me by borrowing more. This is what drives inflation, the creation of a debt that can never be repaid. Economic growth simply means that the banks have loaned more non-existent cash, and a recession is when they call in payments on those loans. The whole system is sick and broken and it has to stop at some point because it is simply unsustainable. Now you consider third world nations that are drowning in debt…. people are starving to death because their governments cannot repay money that doesn’t exist, that’s CRAZY!

      I could rant for hours on all these topics, but it all boils down to one issue: we must take our sovereign powers back, both individually and collectively, and we must do so without fearing anarchy. This can only happen with a spiritual revolution that brings new understanding and new solutions.

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