Ignorance and Idiocy; a match made in Hell

Oh dear, today we have yet another article in the overflowing bucket of hate levied against us. This moron doesn’t even try to explain WHY she believes that incest is wrong, she just repeatedly states that it is. The level of ignorance of the issues here is absolutely staggering, and her attitude is lamentable, although sadly unsurprising and typical of writers of this caliber. Usually it is customary for reporters of any kind to research what their topic is before presenting their arguments. However, when it comes to incest, apparently none is required beyond looking at other sensationalist news stories and making comments about how gross it is. Hardly the hallmark of a serious journalist, but it does sell newspapers on shock value alone. If it sells, I doubt her boss minds that her work is full of inaccuracies. So, I will do with this article what I do with all of them… give them the ‘Jane Doe’ treatment😉

Incest. It’s an icky term.

It’s only icky if you find it icky. I personally don’t… so here in your opening sentence is a personal opinion masquerading as fact. FAIL count: 1.

Defined as the sexual relations between immediate family, incest takes place when say a brother and sister or a father and daughter have sex.

Actually, incest is defined differently in different places. Some places include first cousins, where other countries only immediate family counts. Some places include step-relations and adopted relatives, others don’t. Incest is not illegal in every country, and in fact a great MANY places do not have these outrageous laws against it.

And it seems consensual incest is on the rise.

Why is that a problem? If it is between consenting adults and it does not harm anybody then there is no good reason for this to be considered a bad thing.

Just this year we’ve reported on a mother who wants to have a child with her son, a daughter who fell in and out of love with her father, and a daughter who lost her virginity to her once estranged father, now fiance.

So? It shouldn’t even be an issue. These beautiful relationships should not be condemned, they should be celebrated the same as any other relationship between consenting adults is.

Last year Josh Duggar, the eldest child of the clan from now-defunct show 19 Kids & Counting was suspected of incest after being accused of ‘fondling three young girls’, two of them his sisters when he was a teenager. This was also before he was one of the men outed as a user of Ashley Maddison, a dating website for people looking to have affairs.

If these ‘young girls’ were also teens of similar age, then that would not be a problem as it falls under youthful experimentation. If however they were pre-pubescent children then he should have the book thrown at him for child molestation. The incest isn’t the issue, the age of these girls is the issue… or at least it should be. As for being a member of a dating website for people looking to have affairs… that’s pretty screwed up because adultery hurts people. I can understand that some people find themselves in situation where they are tempted and do stupid things, but looking for adultery specifically is clearly very wrong.

There was even an uproar after Lena Dunham released her memoir/bounded book of essays Not That Kind Of Girl in 2014, with some commenters accusing the Girls star of incest with her kid sister, after shedescribed the time she ‘examined’ her sister’s vagina and discovered pebbles buried within.

While the latter example was a bunch of overzealous adults responding to a child’s curiosity (Dunham was 7 at the time the ‘incident’ took place), the others are cause for concern.

You acknowledge that this latter example is not the same as consenting adults having sex… you fail to mention that the Duggar case is totally different from incest between consenting adults. Fail count: 2

Furthermore, WHY should it be a ’cause for concern?’ Mind explaining that?

It seems many consensual incest relationships go a little like this: parent or family member is separated from their child at a young age. Parent or family member reconnect with said child later in life. Both parties ‘fall in love’ disregarding the obvious implication of genetics.

Well first of all, not all consanguine couples want to procreate. In fact a great many choose not to for this very reason, and there are many safe and reliable long-term methods of contraception available.

It is also a fact that the actual risks of inbreeding are considerably lower than you may realize. There is no actual studies on the risk for immediate family, however, there is a study for double first cousins, who have the same amount of shared genetics as full blood siblings. Their risk is 9%. Therefore the risk for full siblings, and for parent/offspring relationships will be around this level too.

Yet even this elevated risk is insufficient basis to ban these relationships. Other groups of people also have increased risks of producing a child with a discernible defect. Women over 40 years of age are at increased risk of downs syndrome… should we ban older women from reproducing? Of course not. What of people who have an even greater risk of passing down a genetic disease, such as Tay-Sachs in which the risk is 25%? Should people with this disease be banned from reproduction or sex? No, obviously. With this information, you can see how INVALID this argument actually is. FAIL Count: 3

The kind of incest you are referring to here is called Genetic Sexual attraction, where two people who were separated from childhood are reunited. This is a bit different from straightforward incest where the people grew up with, or were raised by each other from the get go. The former is biologically incest but not sociologically, the latter it is incest both biologically AND sociologically. That said, the emotions involved in both kinds are similar, and the ridiculous discrimination faced by both groups due to prejudice and misunderstanding are the same… and both groups are sick and tired of being labeled as perverts.

My first question is how? How do you fall in love with someone you know you’re biologically related too?

Very easily and naturally, the same way that anyone falls in love with anyone… it isn’t that different for incest couples. Of course there is the added dimension of the family bond, which in incestuous relationships is the very basis on which the romance is built… this is the double-love concept that so many people find difficult to understand.

You might be wondering at this point about the Westermarck effect. Well that is not present for GSA couples for a start as it requires people to be raised by or alongside each other for it to be present. However, even people who were never separated may not experience the Westermarck effect strongly enough for it to prevent them from being attracted to a family member. It works for most people, but it doesn’t work for everyone.

Sure you get along really well and probably think they’re beautiful, but that’s because they’re family. They are a part of you. Heck, they even probably look like you

Actually, more recent studies prove that we are actually hardwired to be attracted to people who look like ourselves. Who could be more similar looking than a member of ones immediate family? The Westermarck effect supposed to stop people from feeling incestuous attraction… but for those of us for whom it doesn’t work, or is not present because of GSA… that’s how these relationships can and do occur.

There’s even a thread on Reddit dedicated to consensual incestual relationships. Take the 40-year-old uncle who recently met his 20-year-old niece for the first time. He’s convinced the day they spent together was ‘a date’ and their feelings are mutual. Or the person who walked in on his mum and brother in bed together.

I’m aware of the Reddit group, and I am a member there myself. I wouldn’t believe absolutely everything you read on that particular website because there are a fair few wannabes looking for kicks, that said, some of the content is relevant and some of it is true. It is important however that people do have access to such support groups if they are in need of advice or information.

One user pointed out that in most of these cases, where the person is questioning whether or not to act on their feelings, could be a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA). GSA is the taboo topic on the rise that no one wants to talk about. Why are more and more biological family members coupling up than ever before?

I’m pretty sure that incest is occurring at the same rate at which it has always occurred. It’s just we know much more about it, and have access to more stories, because of the Internet. So there is no sudden explosion of incest cases, just greater awareness.

Genetic Sexual Attraction is the sexual attraction of two family members that meet first as adults. The term was coined in the ’80s by Barbara Gonyo who fell in love with her son after the pair were estranged for most of his life. The Guardian reported in 2003, “50% of reunions between siblings, or parents and offspring, separated at birth result in obsessive emotions.” In other words, they feel strong sexual feelings towards one another.

Again, why is that a problem? You still haven’t explained your objection, other than calling it ‘icky’ and using the invalidated mutant babies argument.

Gonyo’s book on GSA, I’m His Mother, But He’s Not My Son, suggests GSA is a result of a ‘delayed by-product of missed bonding’ which would have taken place between a mother and her newborn infant, The Guardianreported.

In other words, no Westermarck effect. Exactly what I was saying earlier in this rebuttal.

Is this an excuse?

People should NOT be made to feel the need to explain their love to anyone. Love is love and should be respected. So what kind of stupid question is that. FAIL count: 4

Should we allow family members to have sexual relationships because they are experiencing GSA? 

You should be allowing any and all consenting adults to have their relationships unmolested by the state… family or not, initiated by GSA or not.

Should we stop treating these people, who have found love with one another, like circus freaks when they decide to tell their story?

Of course you should stop treating people like circus freaks. What kind of a question is that? FAIL count: 5

Should we continue to condemn them just because they can’t help the way they feel?

Of course you should! How would you like it if you fell deeply in love with somebody but society forbids that relationship? It’s not so easy to condemn when you think of it that way.

Yes we should.

Which makes you a bigoted arsehole. FAIL count: 6

For one, it’s illegal.

Yes it is, but it shouldn’t be. When consenting adults love each other and want to be together, don’t you think using the law to persecute them is immoral and disgusting? Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it is wrong, and just because something is legal doesn’t make it right either. So this argument is plenty stupid and invalid. FAIL count: 7

Two, it’s just plain wrong.

Well apart from it’s illegality, the mutant babies argument, and the ick factor… you actually have not provided ANY basis for it being wrong.

Surely even the knowledge this person has the same bloodline as you would turn you off in the first place?

Actually no. In the absence of the Westermarck effect, and with the fact that we are by our very natures attracted to similarity… family members can and do fall in love. Incest does not turn everybody off… it might turn YOU off, but other people can and do feel differently.

How can you leave your current partner for someone you know is your daughter?

The same way that anyone leaves their current partner for somebody else. Would it not be more cruel to everyone if he stayed with his partner, stringing her along, while not giving his daughter the time and love and attention she wants from her father/lover, and remaining unhappy with the situation himself and having to sneak around?  Yes, that WOULD be more cruel, wouldn’t it? Much healthier and more honest that he leaves his partner and lives with the daughter he is really in love with. People with integrity do not string people along.

This is something I cannot wrap my head around.

Clearly, hence this woefully ignorant article.

Yet, being treated as circus freaks is not okay either.

Good, finally something upon which we actually agree.

The mother and son who ‘came out’ as planning to have a child together last week didn’t have to go to the tabloids with their story.

True, but courageously they did. They certainly don’t deserve the torrent of abuse that they have received from the tabloids or the public.

They could have led a simple life without anyone knowing their secret

Again true… but why should loving couples have to hide? It’s SAD, it’s WRONG and it’s IMMORAL for society to treat loving couples this way just because they’re related.

But no, they chose to sell their story and in return they have been forced into hiding after police made it clear they could face jail time after their admission.

Yes, they are suffering PERSECUTION for their love. Can’t you see that this is WRONG?

Whether or not the couple in question have a case of GSA, incest is just plain wrong and sometimes there are feelings worth fighting against.

You STILL haven’t explain why you feel incest is wrong… and we are now at the end of your article. People should NOT have to fight against true love, making people do so is the real wrong here, make no mistake about it. Furthermore, before you go off and write more articles full of ignorance, logical fallacies and inaccuracies, I would recommend doing some REAL RESEARCH on the subject. Reading my website would be a good starting place.


2 thoughts on “Ignorance and Idiocy; a match made in Hell

  1. But guys! It’s gross so it has to be wrong! Just like homosexuality and interracial couples. You will follow our narrowly defined ideals, or we will ruin your life, because we feel gross! Doing anything gross sexually requires jail time! Damn perverts!


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