18th Mar 2015

GSA Sparks an Intense Love

From Full Marriage Equality:


[…] I am currently legally married. We have lived separate lives and have not had intimacy in over five. We have separate rooms, etc. It’s a platonic co-parenting situation with the father of my two daughters [preteen/early teen]. I consider myself bisexual although I’m not a fan of labels.

[…] I had zero idea he ever existed until I was told at age thirty-nine. I was lied to my whole life by my mother who told me my my custodial dad was my biological dad, who committed suicide when I was eleven. My mom died in 2008 and never uttered a word about my biological father and two half-brothers. My childhood was very strange due to both parents being mentally ill. All my life I questioned and just “felt” my dad was not biological dad.

[…] The sexual attraction was instant for both of us. The night after I found out he was my brother I started looking at photos of him. I found myself becoming sexually aroused and was up all night with very confusing thoughts. The next day we talked and he also reported feeling similar feelings. We met physically on that Monday and within an hour of meeting we couldn’t keep our hands off each other. That night we did everything but full sex due to his feelings of being uncomfortable. I absolutely would have done it that night.


[…] After leaving my wife, I moved from the west side of the state to the east side to be close to my sister.  I currently have roommates and am pleased with my location and the freedom for my sister and I to enjoy my environment stress-free. My roommates have no idea that we are related and have not questioned the fact that we look like each other.

[…] I would describe my sexual orientation as heterosexual but bi-curious. I have acted on the latter but it’s definitely not for me. I would consider myself highly open-minded however.

[…] I first saw a photo of my sister after my Dad passed away and I was informed of her. I found her on Facebook. I was told not to contact her and so I abided by the family’s wishes. Her picture was amazing, I could see that she looked like me and sensed that we would be a lot alike. What I saw though was my little sister and I had no sexual undertones at all at seeing her picture initially.

Interestingly, as I mourned my Dad, I had a tremendous amount of joy learning of my sister, who I then had to mourn because I couldn’t contact her. Eventually, however, I was told that outside contact was made with her and basically the ok was given to meet her. We contacted via Facebook and, later that evening, by phone. […] A couple days later, I volunteered that I was having strange feelings and she stopped me mid-sentence and told me she knew exactly what I was going to say and that she was feeling the same.

[…] Obviously, I knew the […] stereotypes of incestuous back-wood hicks. I never knew such perfect love was possible. […] My opinion about family members who engage in this is similar to yours. You can’t help who you fall in love with. I didn’t look for this; it looked for me! It landed right in my lap,thank God!  Exactly when I needed it, too!

[…] My role in this relationship is as follows: Brother, Lover, Boyfriend, surrogate Father (I have to show her who my Dad was) and absolute Best Friend. In the future it will be Husband. Our birth certificates show different Fathers. All of these roles are wrapped into one. Frankly, I don’t give a f— what the government thinks because they’re ignorant and always have been. We have been together for two months and it feels like forty years…in a good way.  I see us both as family and lovers.

[…] Not one person in my life knows the full true nature. I use an allegory of a cliff. I can take a few to the edge of the cliff, letting them know that I’m attracted to her but denying any sort of sexual activity, but I will not go over the edge with them.  I prefer it that way with my family and friends. The ones that I have told have an understanding of it and one even gave us a safe place to spend time with each other in the beginning. Despite being male-female versions of each other, we act as a couple in public unless there is a chance that we may run into people we know. We realized that people will not be scrutinizing us because they are concerned with their own lives. In addition, if they did comment, it’s a known fact that people tend to date those that look familiar. We can also prove that we have different fathers on the birth certificate if it were ever to be pressed by others who doubt.

[…] I think of her best friend, despite knowing the GSA information and actually letting us know about it, is vehemently opposed to our relationship. She has said the most evil, vile and disgusting things about me without ever meeting me. I just refer to her and people like her as Plebians. They are ignorant scum and have no idea what this experience feels like. On the other hand there are those within her circle who can accept and intellectualize what is happening.

[…] I have no doubt that we are going to get married whether or not it is legal.  F— them!


“Incest? Or Is It Something Else?”

This is an excellent piece. I’m glad that I could have such a positive impact on changing someone’s world view. That is, after all, the point of this blog.

“This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill — the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and stay in Wonderland, and I’ll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.”

-Morpheus, The Matrix

Perfect metaphor for where this article is going to go. If you want to swallow the blue pill and keep on with your same views of Norma and Norman Bates, now’s the time to do it. Go ahead. Take the blue pill. Otherwise, we’ll be venturing into the underground and exploring a taboo that runs under the surface of things in this series. We’ll be getting up close and intimate with it. I can’t and don’t want to resist taking the red pill when it comes to topics like this. I want to put them under a magnifying glass. Last chance.

I took a long time before I delved into researching this real-life phenomena in its various forms. Part of me wanted to, yet another part was afraid of what I might find. What I did end up finding was surprising, unexpected, and (remarkably) enlightening. I can safely say I have a somewhat-altered perspective because this topic contains many, many different variations of gray–a lot more than I ever would’ve thought it would.

Some History, Definitions, and Distinctions

Most of us simply define incest as “sexual relations between two people who are blood-related.” Unfortunately due to the prevalence of sex crimes against children, incest frequently gets lumped into the same category. Don’t get me wrong; there are scores of criminal cases were this does apply. But sometimes: it doesn’t.

Incest falls into two main categories: non-consensual and consensual. There’s also a third sub-category: genetic sexual attraction, which has some overlap in definition with consensual incest. But it also has some different traits according to different individuals’ circumstances, and every couple’s I’ve read about are different.

There is no way in hell I’d EVER condone non-consensual sex crimes committed against minor children, whether they’re incestuous or not. Adults who commit these acts need to be prosecuted ASAP and punished to the fullest extent of the law if found guilty. Now that’s out of the way, and it won’t be a further focus of this article. Instead, it’ll be on consensual intimate relationships between two adults, both over the age of majority, who happen to be related by blood. This category of incest is likely the most taboo and the most condemned throughout virtually every modern society the world over.

Yet like most things involving forbidden sex between adults, we can’t help but be fascinated by the idea of consensual incest, even as we’re horrified and repulsed by it at the same time. It’s really a concentrated example of common attitudes towards sex in general, even now in the relatively-enlightened 21st century. We’ve all had it drilled into our heads from the time we were old enough to understand what sex itself was: Incest is horrid, disgusting, a crime, ad infinidum, and yet the idea still has that allure of the forbidden. For decades, incest has shown up over and over in literature, including in classic works by authors such as

  • Gabriel Garcia Marquez
  • Vladimir Nabokov
  • A.S. Byatt
  • J.R.R. Tolkien
  • Thomas Malory

It wasn’t always so universally condemned; a brief look at ancient history and mythology will show you just how much attitudes towards incest have changed over the centuries. The ancient Egyptians considered incest an acceptable and expected practice, especially among the royal family as a means of keeping the blood lines pure.

Greek mythology is rife with incestuous unions. From an anthropological perspective, other early civilizations viewed incestuous marriages as a practical way of putting an end to disputes (and often wars) between rival villages or tribes when a son from one and a daughter from the other happened to fall in love and wished to marry. The resulting conflicts were bloody and expensive, in terms of human lives, crops, livestock, etc., The practice of incest became adopted in order to avoid them, so there was an economic practicality to it in this sense.

Incest From a Clinical and Legal Perspective

Consensual intimate partnerships between blood relatives are now subject to punishment by the same types of laws put in place to protect minors from sexual abuse-whether by coercion, manipulation, or both. While those laws have their definite and justifiable purpose, they often fail to recognize the difference of incestuous relationships that two willing adults have entered of their own volition. In many reported cases, the couples have reported strong romantic attachments and commitments to one another. They also (rather justifiably) feel unduly persecuted for who they happened to fall in love with. These have included full-blood brother/sister, half-brother/half-sister, cousins, and yes: even parent/adult-child pairings. A number of these cases have made news headlines throughout Europe, Asia, North America, and Australia. In several of these consensual unions, one or both parties have been imprisoned and have fought back against existing anti-incest laws in their respective countries.

Laws against consensual incest stem from both various religious teachings and from fears over genetic defects in the children of a consensual-incest couple. Recent genetic research has uncovered higher-than-average chances of genetic abnormalities, but those percentages are lower than many medical researchers initially thought. According to author Diane Rinella’s research:

“Children of unrelated parents have a 3% to 4% risk of having serious birth defects. The offspring of first cousins have only a slightly higher risk of about 4% to 7%. The risk for the closest relation possible, parent/child, is only about 9%, all other factors being random. So between 7% and 9% are the odds for siblings.”
9%. Made me sit back and think for a while.

Blogger Keith Pullman takes it a step further and proposes that consensual incest between two loving partners needs to renamed, redefined, and decriminalized. In an ideal world, the stigma and discrimination would be removed from it as well. While a lot of his writings make logical arguments, some of the specifics do make me somewhat uncomfortable. That fact has made me take a good long look in the mirror (so to speak) at my own preconceived notions and prejudices. It made me ask myself exactly why I have them to begin with. Even so, I’m willing to listen, read, learn, and think things over. That’s what constitutes having an open mind despite a few misgivings. This blog is a treasure trove of eye-opening information that’s likely to make you question a lot. It did for me.

Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA)

The phenomenon of GSA has been recognized since the 1980s, when it was noticed repeatedly by the founder of a support group for adults who had been adopted when very young and were now reunited with their birth families. In about 50% of all these cases, one person will experience strong sexual/romantic attractions towards a blood relative that he or she didn’t grow up with. The main difference between GSA and consanguinamory is that two relatives involved in a GSA situation have never met one another until adulthood. They may have even never known one another existed until the birth family was tracked down and they were able to meet. Psychologists and sociologists point to the absence of the Westermark Effect, which dictates that growing up together negates the development of sexual attraction. The lack of early connection leads to an absence of the Westermark Effect and therefore the potential for developing these feelings is there.

Some documented cases of GSA have involved attraction between biological parents and the adult children they’d adopted out. It’s also occurred between biological siblings, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, or cousins. As Pullman points out, “Add in emotional and psychological factors involved in reuniting with a lost family member, and you have something extremely powerful.”


Now I’ve finally gotten around to this phenomena of consensual incest, also known as “ethical incest” or “neocest”, depending on who you ask and on their point of view. Personally, I’m going with “consanguinamory.” I like the sound and Latin roots of it, if for no other reason. Consanguinamory is defined as sexual/romantic love between close genetic relatives. This couple is considered consaguinamourous if they’re involved in a consensual intimate relationship and both are considered legal adults (age 18 in most countries, though this can vary slightly).

Just exactly how common is consanguinamory? Exact numbers are unknown, but the consensus: more common than you might think. Some researchers venture that most of us have at least known in passing someone who’s been involved in consanguinamory at some point. We just never knew it. That’s also really given me pause for consideration. Just think for a minute all the casual acquaintances you’ve had, how many people you’ve passed on the street, in the school hallway, or elsewhere. The odds are one of those people, some time, somewhere, was/is involved in consanguinamory at some point in their lives. Unless we’re clairvoyant, we’d never have any way of knowing for sure.

Returning to the Westermark Effect for a minute, sometimes it doesn’t take to everyone. When two close relatives have grown up together or one has raised the other, just sometimes it isn’t strong enough to negate feelings of romantic love and sexual attraction once both are adults. These feelings have even higher chances of surfacing with the two have already developed a close, loving, familial/platonic relationship. Why does the Westermark Effect sometimes fail? No one knows for sure, but it does happen. In real life and possibly now on our TV screens for 10 weeks out of the year.

Consanguinamory On Our Screens

Whether some want to acknowledge it or not, TV series in general have become the new “literature” for many of us. The stories, when told well, have just as powerful a hold on us. Some might decry this; I personally celebrate it and give it just as much legitimacy. I’m venturing that “Bates Motel” may well be the first real mainstream portrayal of consanguinamory depicted on our TV screens. And this is a big contributing factor in why the series has gotten such a grip on so many of us in such a short time–regardless if we want to openly admit it.

I made the mistake of assuming consanguinamory hadn’t ever been depicted in movies or TV before, but we know what often happens when we assume things. Some films that dare to go there include:

More about these films and about some (sadly rather limited) documentaries on GSA and consanguinamory can be found on The Final Manifesto.

It’d be difficult to find anyone who lives anywhere with TV and Internet access who has never heard of this controversial A&E series. In only two seasons, as of this writing, it’s garnered a dedicated and passionate fanbase. As you’d expect, the “too-close-for-comfort” relationship between this famous mother/son pairing has sparked endless commentary and discussion. Some fans even venture the opinion that “The Oedipal angle is really the only reason to watch ‘Bates Motel’.” Not surprisingly, many fans have a conflicting attraction/repulsion, mental push/pull reaction to the idea of a consanguinamorous relationship unfolding between these two. Even as some have no idea what consanguinamory is, and I included myself in that group before I did the research for this post.

So what might this say for consanguinamory and its place in our cultural landscape? Some writers like Keith Pullman might suggest it indicates a small step towards a little more acceptance of it. Myself: I’m not really sure about that–but I see where others are coming from if they believe it. I think this: regardless of anyone’s views on consanguinamory, its very presence or suggestion is going to cause a stir. It’s going to stick in your mind and be quite difficult to get rid of (at least in my experience). Going back to what I mentioned about the attraction/repulsion psychological effect, many of us can’t look away from images of Norma and Norman getting close in a non-platonic way, even as they make us squirm. It says as much about us as it does about them, doesn’t it?

Blood Very Well May Be Thicker…

I believe the original Norma/Norman relationship depicted in Psycho IV was abusive and anything but consanguinamorous. That version of Norma was vicious, unpredictable, manipulative, mentally unstable, and possibly even sexually abusive towards 15-year-old Norman. We see one scene that suggests this, and we can only use our imaginations for those scenes behind closed doors we didn’t get to see in this version of their story. Even if what she did to him didn’t qualify as non-consensual incestuous abuse, she was still verbally and sometimes physically abusive in a way that would’ve warranted a CPS inquiry today.

The Norma in “Bates Motel” may not be perfect, but I believe she’s anything but abusive towards Norman. She’s controlling and emotionally demanding, but she loves him so much that she’d never deliberately do anything to hurt him. They have plenty of times where they can’t seem to live with or without each other, especially towards the end of season 2, and this says a lot on its own. No two people get this intensely emotionally tangled up with each other without love being the driving factor. And let’s look honestly at it: this is not parental/familial love, as much as we’d sometimes like to pretend it is due to our own discomfort. There’s no way these two would have the levels of drama between each other if this kind of love/attraction wasn’t running just under the surface, sometimes barely contained. The opposites would be indifference and nonchalance, and I have yet to ever see those enter Norma’s or Norman’s words and actions towards each other.

Want proof? Look at the intensity of the fighting and conflict between them.“Meltdown” is a perfect example. When they have less-than-platonic feelings towards each other, the way any two people get in fights with each other is extremely revealing. It says more than the rather intimate, lingering physical affection these two have over and over throughout the series.

With this growing evidence, I’m putting forth the hypothesis that what Norma and Norman feel for each other qualifies more as consanguinamory than incest as the law would define it. It’s been implied increasingly overtly in the first two seasons, and it’s way beyond implied in some corners of fanfiction land. My personal favorite: a story called “This Much Madness.” It’s harrowing and beautifully written. If you’re curious, go search FanFiction.net for it; it’ll come up. Is their relationship going to escalate further? What might this mean for the direction the show might take? And possibly the most important: how are we the audience going to react? Regardless of our reactions, I’d put money on the fact we still won’t be able to tear our eyes away.

The Big Question

Do I condone these kinds of consensual relationships? That question has caused me more sleepless nights than I care to count. The honest answer:I don’t know. I have come to understand the points of view those who do condone and support them, as limited as my understanding can be as an outsider. Those might seem like the same ideas and “yes” answers, but in reality they’re two very different things. It’s been quite a challenge to wrap my head around–the fact that these forbidden, taboo forms of romantic love REALLY DO exist, and what’s more: some of the stories of them I’ve gotten to read have been very moving.

It’s a lot to undo when you’ve been mentally programmed your whole life to believe these relationships are vile, evil, disgusting, destructive, criminal, etc., in every single last instance of them. But to paraphrase fromSexpressed, what’s disgusting to you is not disgusting to them. I’ve come to think my “Matrix” comparison at the opening of this article wasn’t too far off the mark. I truly feel like I have been “unplugged” when it comes to views of consanguinamory and GSA. There really is no going back.

I have learned that “incest” is too loaded of a word and does not allow for intelligent, educated discussion on this subject that’s still so controversial that even most academics won’t touch it. So I’ve struck it from my vocabulary when it pertains to consensual intimate relationships between legal adults who happen to be biologically related. I’ve come to the conclusion that the two leads in Bates Motel give us a look through the window at a consanguinamorous relationship–one of the most taboo ones: mother/son. The fact this relationship is wrapped up in madness, violence and murder is a tragedy that’s nothing less than Shakespearian as far as I’m concerned.

The ultimate lesson I’ve taken away from all this: Before you condemn, judge, and make all the “ick!” exclamations, take the time to educate yourself and to think. We don’t live in an “either-or”, “black-or-white” world. And it would be a more enlightened and compassionate world if we did make the time for that.


An Absolute Must-Read: The Final Manifesto: A fantastic blog full of information, resources, current events about real-life couples and the struggles they face, and much more.

I highly recommend this post in particular: A Follower Asked Me a Question and I Answered. It’s very thorough in its explanations/arguments and likely to blow apart a lot of rationalizations about what’s “wrong.”

Also: Consensual Incest Never Happens? Many of these links are 18+ and NSFW, but all the same they’re eye-opening.

http://www.thestar.com.my/story/?file=%2f2008%2f5%2f5%2flifefocus%2f20900821&sec=lifefocus Very thorough and informative feature on the incest taboo, by journalist Allan Koay. Recommended.





This is what I said in response:

Great essay! I’m glad I could be of so much help! I’m really flattered.

I can understand what you’re feeling, and it’s not all that uncommon. It’s that strange emotional area where something squicks you but you no longer feel outrage about it. The same thing happens with straight people toward gay sex and gay people toward straight sex. Bill Maher admits that the thought of two men going at it makes him uncomfortable, and Dan Savage admits that straight sex still grosses him out. It’s natural, considering it’s something foreign to them, and something they have no personal desire to do, and would not think about doing if other people didn’t bring it up. Still, when Bill Maher is with some gay friends and they’re talking about their exes or something, I really doubt he goes, “Ew! Yuck! Stop talking about that!” Despite feeling some discomfort at the thought of having sex with a man, or watching two men have sex, he still knows that it doesn’t mean anything, and that expressing such emotions is obnoxious and immature.

That’s ultimately where most people will end up. They may not personally be okay with the thought of consanguinamory, but they’ll just not think about it – like the rest of us don’t think about BDSM or whatever else it is we don’t like – and when it comes up in polite company, they won’t make a scene about it. That’s the best that can be expected of most people, and there’s no reason to demand more.

Point is, don’t feel weird about feeling weird. Just know where that weirdness belongs in the scheme of life.

And this is her wonderful reply:

Thank you so much for your kind words and for taking the time to read this! 🙂

That is pretty much where I am about it: it’s not personally something I’d ever even consider participating in, but I’m not going to express outrage or condemnation at any of the happy couples (or triads or more) whose stories I’ve learned about, or new ones I learn about in the future. Even if I feel uncomfortable, I tell myself “Hey, they’re in love, it’s totally consensual, they’re harming absolutely no one, it’s none of my business or anyone else’s” If I’m uncomfortable, that’s my problem and I won’t make it theirs. 

Some people go their whole lives without ever truly being in love, so if two or more people who happen to share the same blood are in love, they should be counted among the lucky ones in my opinion.